4 ms·

Blaming the internet for misogyny is kind of bizarre, given that current levels of misogyny are within a couple points of all-time historical lows. The internet

by wyager 2y ago

Blaming the internet for misogyny is kind of bizarre, given that current levels of misogyny are within a couple points of all-time historical lows. The internet was invented ~40 years ago. Women started getting vote ~100 years ago. Do you think the internet has returned us to pre-women's-suffrage levels of misogyny?

mediaman 2y ago
Do you believe that no subfactor can ever have a sign opposite of the factor of which it is a component?
- SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
  In general it can. In this specific case, I really struggle to see even a single dimension in which young boys are more misogynistic now than they were 2 decades ago. The original comment mentions Andrew Tate - in the early 2000s there was an entire genre of Andrew Tates called "pickup artists".
ToucanLoucan 2y ago
> Do you think the internet has returned us to pre-women's-suffrage levels of misogyny? Well in the States at least we did just revoke a sizable amount of their bodily autonomy so, the situation may not be that bad, yet, but I wouldn't call it good by any measurement. Any my objection isn't "that sexism exists in society," that is probably going to be true as a statement until the sun explodes, and possibly after that if we actually nail down space travel as a technology and get off this particular rock. My issue is massive corporations making billions of dollars facilitating men who want to spread sexist ideas, and paying them for the pleasure. That's what I have an issue with. Be whatever kind of asshole you see fit to be, the purity of your soul is no one's concern but yours, and if you have one, whatever god you worship. I just don't want you being paid for it, and I feel that's a reasonable line to draw.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  I am firmly in favor of abortion rights but still I do not think that is even remotely a good bellwether to measure sexism/misogyny. 1. Women are more likely than men to be opposed to abortion rights. 2. Many people who are opposed to abortion rights have legitimately held moral concerns that are not simply because they have no respect for women's rights. 3. Roe v. Wade was the decision of 9 people. It absolutely did not reflect public opinion at the time - nothing even close to as expansive would possibly have passed in a referendum in 1974. Compare that to now, where multiple states that are known abortion holdouts have repealed abortion restrictions in referenda - and it is obvious that people are moving to the left on this issue compared to where we were in 1974. Social media facilitates communication. As long as there is sexism and freedom of communication, there will be people making money off of facilitating sexist communication because there will be people making money off of facilitating communication writ large. It's like blaming a toll highway for facilitating someone trafficking drugs. They are also making money off of facilitating anti-sexist communication - and the world as a whole is becoming less sexist, partially in my view due to the spread of views facilitated by the internet.
  - usaar333 2y ago
    Agreed it is a poor bell whether. But: > Women are more likely than men to be opposed to abortion rights Where is that coming from? Pew (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opini...) has a 5 point higher opposition rate by men.
    - whimsicalism 2y ago
      Generally it seems from polls I had seen that the % of women favoring illegality is higher than men [0][1]. But it seems that there has been a considerable shift in women's opinions post-pandemic which perhaps tracks in the US with broader gender partisan shifts (men & women becoming politically delinked, perhaps due to algo social media/tiktok) as well as Dobbs being a wakeup call for some women. [0]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abortion-trends-gender.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abortion-trends-gender.a... [1]: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/a0c0uf8c2g/YouGov-Survey-University-of-Lancaster-Results-130130.pdf https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/docume... (older but it was a poll i remembered)

by wyager 2y ago

mediaman 2y ago

Do you believe that no subfactor can ever have a sign opposite of the factor of which it is a component?

SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
In general it can. In this specific case, I really struggle to see even a single dimension in which young boys are more misogynistic now than they were 2 decades ago. The original comment mentions Andrew Tate - in the early 2000s there was an entire genre of Andrew Tates called "pickup artists".

ToucanLoucan 2y ago

> Do you think the internet has returned us to pre-women's-suffrage levels of misogyny? Well in the States at least we did just revoke a sizable amount of their bodily autonomy so, the situation may not be that bad, yet, but I wouldn't call it good by any measurement. Any my objection isn't "that sexism exists in society," that is probably going to be true as a statement until the sun explodes, and possibly after that if we actually nail down space travel as a technology and get off this particular rock. My issue is massive corporations making billions of dollars facilitating men who want to spread sexist ideas, and paying them for the pleasure. That's what I have an issue with. Be whatever kind of asshole you see fit to be, the purity of your soul is no one's concern but yours, and if you have one, whatever god you worship. I just don't want you being paid for it, and I feel that's a reasonable line to draw.

whimsicalism 2y ago
I am firmly in favor of abortion rights but still I do not think that is even remotely a good bellwether to measure sexism/misogyny. 1. Women are more likely than men to be opposed to abortion rights. 2. Many people who are opposed to abortion rights have legitimately held moral concerns that are not simply because they have no respect for women's rights. 3. Roe v. Wade was the decision of 9 people. It absolutely did not reflect public opinion at the time - nothing even close to as expansive would possibly have passed in a referendum in 1974. Compare that to now, where multiple states that are known abortion holdouts have repealed abortion restrictions in referenda - and it is obvious that people are moving to the left on this issue compared to where we were in 1974. Social media facilitates communication. As long as there is sexism and freedom of communication, there will be people making money off of facilitating sexist communication because there will be people making money off of facilitating communication writ large. It's like blaming a toll highway for facilitating someone trafficking drugs. They are also making money off of facilitating anti-sexist communication - and the world as a whole is becoming less sexist, partially in my view due to the spread of views facilitated by the internet.
- usaar333 2y ago
  Agreed it is a poor bell whether. But: > Women are more likely than men to be opposed to abortion rights Where is that coming from? Pew (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opini...) has a 5 point higher opposition rate by men.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    Generally it seems from polls I had seen that the % of women favoring illegality is higher than men [0][1]. But it seems that there has been a considerable shift in women's opinions post-pandemic which perhaps tracks in the US with broader gender partisan shifts (men & women becoming politically delinked, perhaps due to algo social media/tiktok) as well as Dobbs being a wakeup call for some women. [0]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abortion-trends-gender.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abortion-trends-gender.a... [1]: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/a0c0uf8c2g/YouGov-Survey-University-of-Lancaster-Results-130130.pdf https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/docume... (older but it was a poll i remembered)