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Why this over ReactOS, a much more mature open source OS, which is also based on NT? https://reactos.org/ https://reactos.org/

kirha 2y ago
From FAQ: Why don’t you help ReactOS? ExectOS goals are very different from ReactOS, and contrast the project’s core philosophy as being quite on different paths. While ReactOS aims to replicate Windows® NT™, ExectOS is a completely new Operating System implementing the XT architecture which derives from NT™. Although both projects share the goal of being NT™ compatible, they intend to achieve it in different ways. What ReactOS tries to replicate, ExectOS only implements as a compatibility layer. Thanks to that, ExectOS does not need to strictly follow NT™ architecture and is capable of providing modern features. Do you intend to cooperate with ReactOS to achieve common goals? No. We share Wine’s opinion on the inappropriate reverse-engineering methods used in the ReactOS project, as well as its association with the TinyKrnl project, which used every possible method of achieving the end result of having a 100% compatible results. This especially applies to the so-called ‘dirty’ way.
- malermeister 2y ago
  Can you share a bit more about the inappropriate and dirty reverse-engineering by ReactOS and what the deal with TinyKrnl is? This response really only answers the question for a select few people familiar with the windows reverse engineering community drama.
  - kirha 2y ago
    I don't know but similar can be found on https://wiki.winehq.org/Clean_Room_Guidelines https://wiki.winehq.org/Clean_Room_Guidelines "Don't look at ReactOS code either (not even header files). A lot of it was reverse-engineered using methods that are not appropriate for Wine, and it's therefore not a usable source of information for us. [1]"
    - forgotpwd16 2y ago
      That looks strange and requires more information. ReactOS devs in past have submitted patches in Wine, since ReactOS itself uses some parts from Wine.
      - kirha 2y ago
        ReactOS takes from Wine, but Wine does not want to take from ReactOS any longer.
        temac 2y ago
        Not surprising when you compare some leaked NT code and some ReactOS code. I'm not even saying they straight copied the source btw, but some consider that disassembling as a reference is fine (and using MS symbols...). Well it might even be legal in some cases (more cases that some licence-aware people commonly imagine), but this is a really risky stance to take. For sure ReactOS is very far from clean-room.
        kirha 2y ago
        I think there are more reasons. Maybe let's move this discussion here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40730327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40730327 I don't want to make this thread shit-post.
hilbert42 2y ago
Probably out of frustration from ReactOS's lack of development. ReactOS must take the record for software with the longest gestation in history. The project is decades old and there's little to show for it. I've never figured out why the inordinate delay given that millions are unhappy with Windows and Microsoft generally. You'd reckon open source developers would be falling over themselves to join such a project but it seems not. Perhaps there's something about how the ReactOS project is run that I'm unaware of that puts people off. The other problem is trying to find out news of the project, the ReactOS website goes dead for many months at a time and updates are at times years apart. You'd reckon its developers would be much more communicative, and I reckon this is one of the reasons why there isn't more interest in the project. The fact that ReactOS is going nowhere is most annoying, having no alternative O/S to Windows is a real pain. BTW, I've tried every every release for years and I have been unable to get a stable enough release to run even one dedicated task. (Some of my tasks such as email or wordprocessing could be put on a dedicated machine so it was the only user-installed software, that way an unstable O/S wouldn't be stressed too much but unfortunately with ReactOS even that idea hasn't worked out.)
- celdon25 2y ago
  You successfully answered why you would make a project that you haven't made, but that doesn't really answer the question, and the author already answered in the same subthread 30 minutes before your post.
  - hilbert42 2y ago
    Not answered to my satisfaction.
- forgotpwd16 2y ago
  To not get cease & desist'd to hell, great effort is spent to make sure every bit of code introduced to ReactOS has been properly clean-room engineered. The Windows source code leaks specifically have made a great job to stall ReactOS development. Also the potential legal issues and making an enemy of MS makes it hard to get sponsors. Hence project is entirely developed by unpaid volunteers.

kirha 2y ago

From FAQ: Why don’t you help ReactOS? ExectOS goals are very different from ReactOS, and contrast the project’s core philosophy as being quite on different paths. While ReactOS aims to replicate Windows® NT™, ExectOS is a completely new Operating System implementing the XT architecture which derives from NT™. Although both projects share the goal of being NT™ compatible, they intend to achieve it in different ways. What ReactOS tries to replicate, ExectOS only implements as a compatibility layer. Thanks to that, ExectOS does not need to strictly follow NT™ architecture and is capable of providing modern features. Do you intend to cooperate with ReactOS to achieve common goals? No. We share Wine’s opinion on the inappropriate reverse-engineering methods used in the ReactOS project, as well as its association with the TinyKrnl project, which used every possible method of achieving the end result of having a 100% compatible results. This especially applies to the so-called ‘dirty’ way.

malermeister 2y ago
Can you share a bit more about the inappropriate and dirty reverse-engineering by ReactOS and what the deal with TinyKrnl is? This response really only answers the question for a select few people familiar with the windows reverse engineering community drama.
- kirha 2y ago
  I don't know but similar can be found on https://wiki.winehq.org/Clean_Room_Guidelines https://wiki.winehq.org/Clean_Room_Guidelines "Don't look at ReactOS code either (not even header files). A lot of it was reverse-engineered using methods that are not appropriate for Wine, and it's therefore not a usable source of information for us. [1]"
  - forgotpwd16 2y ago
    That looks strange and requires more information. ReactOS devs in past have submitted patches in Wine, since ReactOS itself uses some parts from Wine.
    - kirha 2y ago
      ReactOS takes from Wine, but Wine does not want to take from ReactOS any longer.
      - temac 2y ago
        Not surprising when you compare some leaked NT code and some ReactOS code. I'm not even saying they straight copied the source btw, but some consider that disassembling as a reference is fine (and using MS symbols...). Well it might even be legal in some cases (more cases that some licence-aware people commonly imagine), but this is a really risky stance to take. For sure ReactOS is very far from clean-room.
        kirha 2y ago
        I think there are more reasons. Maybe let's move this discussion here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40730327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40730327 I don't want to make this thread shit-post.

hilbert42 2y ago

Probably out of frustration from ReactOS's lack of development. ReactOS must take the record for software with the longest gestation in history. The project is decades old and there's little to show for it. I've never figured out why the inordinate delay given that millions are unhappy with Windows and Microsoft generally. You'd reckon open source developers would be falling over themselves to join such a project but it seems not. Perhaps there's something about how the ReactOS project is run that I'm unaware of that puts people off. The other problem is trying to find out news of the project, the ReactOS website goes dead for many months at a time and updates are at times years apart. You'd reckon its developers would be much more communicative, and I reckon this is one of the reasons why there isn't more interest in the project. The fact that ReactOS is going nowhere is most annoying, having no alternative O/S to Windows is a real pain. BTW, I've tried every every release for years and I have been unable to get a stable enough release to run even one dedicated task. (Some of my tasks such as email or wordprocessing could be put on a dedicated machine so it was the only user-installed software, that way an unstable O/S wouldn't be stressed too much but unfortunately with ReactOS even that idea hasn't worked out.)

celdon25 2y ago
You successfully answered why you would make a project that you haven't made, but that doesn't really answer the question, and the author already answered in the same subthread 30 minutes before your post.
- hilbert42 2y ago
  Not answered to my satisfaction.
forgotpwd16 2y ago
To not get cease & desist'd to hell, great effort is spent to make sure every bit of code introduced to ReactOS has been properly clean-room engineered. The Windows source code leaks specifically have made a great job to stall ReactOS development. Also the potential legal issues and making an enemy of MS makes it hard to get sponsors. Hence project is entirely developed by unpaid volunteers.