3 ms·

Often SBC makers will release a laptop with the same SoC and specs as the SBC, sometimes literally containing the SBC inside of them. The Sipeed Lichee Console

Often SBC makers will release a laptop with the same SoC and specs as the SBC, sometimes literally containing the SBC inside of them. The Sipeed Lichee Console 4A [0] contains the Lichee Module 4A (one of those SBCs on a module like the raspberry pi compute modules) and it looks like the Lichee book 4A is doing the same thing [1] The DC-Roma 2 [2] appears to be this sbc [3] adapted to a laptop. The Spacemit Muse Book [4] seems to be the Spacemit Muse pi adapted to a laptop [5] Banana Pi posted this youtube video [6] showing a laptop with "Banana Pi BPI-F3" in the title which is the name of one of their SBCs. [7] [0] https://liliputing.com/lichee-console-4a-is-a-mini-laptop-with-a-risc-v-processor-and-7-inch-display/ [1] https://www.cnx-software.com/2024/06/19/sipeed-lichee-book-4a-14-inch-modular-linux-laptop-launched-with-th1520-quad-core-risc-v-processor/ [2] https://store.deepcomputing.io/products/dc-roma-riscv-laptop-ii-with-octa-core-cpu [3] https://store.deepcomputing.io/products/risc-v-development-board-spacemit-muse-pi [4] https://www.spacemit.com/spacemit-muse/ [5] https://www.spacemit.com/spacemit-muse-pi/ [6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzod1yUzPhc [7] https://wiki.banana-pi.org/Banana_Pi_BPI-F3 > Is the intent that you want the SoC to be socketed and easily replaceable like AM4 Ryzen? Nope, the intent is I wanted exactly what just happened: swappable board inside a reusable shell. I don't want to get a DC-Roma 1 and then a DC-Roma 2, ending up with 2 entire laptops of e-waste when I should be able to upgrade boards and keep the screen/battery/keyboard/touchpad/webcam/speakers/microphone/fingerprint reader, ending up with 1 complete laptop of e-waste and 1 additional board of e-waste.

fennecbutt 2y ago
Compute module !=sbc in my mind. It requires the physical ports etc and should be standalone, a compute module isn't designed to be standalone. Otherwise we could call an arduino an sbc
Neywiny 2y ago
I like the 0 indexing. I guess I don't understand the problem. If you don't want to buy the laptop, don't buy it? I'll note that an SBC and a SoM are different things. SoM (system on module)s are, as the name says, just one module out of many (usually with a carrier, I guess in this case that's laptop). An SBC is much more often designed to be standalone. I will note that those SoMs look suspiciously similar to SMARC SoMs. If so, you should be able to swap them out for ARM, x86, I guess RISC-V, etc modules as they get released. Some of those are indeed just laptop-y motherboards. Industry has had SoM carriers with swappable SoMs for ages. Just look up SMARC carrier. Any one of those should be able to take any SMARC SoM. Same thing with COM-Express. They have different sizes (type 10, type 6, some others I don't remember, where I think backwardsly 10 is the smallest). Interestingly I haven't been able to quickly find SMARC or CoME laptop carriers. So, if that's what these are, they're actually industry leading innovators instead of holding people back. These types of SoMs are even less wasteful. Things like USB hubs, ethernet PHYs, battery circuitry, video converters, all of those can stay on the carrier and the core functionality of the chip (CPU/SoC, flash, RAM) can get changed out as new ones come in. In a way, it may even be better than framework. Again, if this really is a set of SMARC carriers and not just them using the same form-factor or looking similar. > SBCs on a module That's an SoC on a module (though nobody says SoCoM) (or even worse, if it's also a SiP, a SoCiPoM). I don't think that's really a proper use of the term SBC. An SBC is a standalone, able to be used by itself product. Usually no need to buy anything else to adapt it to the outside world.
- craftkiller 2y ago
  > I like the 0 indexing. Thanks! > I guess I don't understand the problem. If you don't want to buy the laptop, don't buy it? The problem is I want a risc-v laptop, but I don't want many risc-v laptops. Before framework, if I bought one of these risc-v laptops then I would either be stuck at exactly that level of performance, with no ability to get chips with newer instructions (for example, the DeepComputing board that is going in the framework laptop does not have the vector extension), or I would have to upgrade at some point which previously necessitated getting another entire laptop which is needlessly wasteful. This isn't as much of a problem in the mainstream laptop market because advances from year to year are pretty small but risc-v is in a rapid development phase. > I'll note that an SBC and a SoM are different thing Are you saying that if I took a raspberry pi compute module and soldered power to the power pins, that it would not boot? Because if it would boot then its an SBC, just with a nifty form factor. I've not run that test myself, but my understanding was that all the necessary hardware was on the module itself and the carrier boards were just routing pins to PHYs for peripherals. > SMARC TIL about SMARC. It looks nice, and I agree that it could be less wasteful and therefore could be better. I guess it comes down to which level of interface will have the greatest longevity. A socketed processor is the least bundled and therefore potentially the least wasteful but then you're stuck with the pinout in your socket, for example, AM4 is stuck on DDR4 ram. SoMs like SMARC move the interface a bit further out by moving the ram to before the interface but it looks like you're limited to 4 lanes of PCIe, 2 USB 3.0 ports, there are 6 USB 2.0 ports which is silly in 2024, and there are even pins wasted on nearly-dead standards like SATA. And then there is the Framework option which moves the interface even further out, being more wasteful by having more stuff bundled on the board, but also achieving the most flexibility since you just need to drive 4 type-c ports, and the handful of onboard connectors like the eDP, webcam, battery, and speakers. If, in the future, USB 7.0 is still using the same type-c port, SSDs are using the new m.5 connector, and LPCAMM 4.0 is out using optical magic connectors, then the Framework shell is still good-to-go whereas a laptop SMARC carrier is not (as demonstrated by SMARC 2.0 not being backwards compatible). Personally, I think Framework is drawing the line at the right level to ensure longevity, but only time will tell. In the case of SMARC time has already told as we can see by them being stuck on USB 3.0.
  - 2y ago
Findecanor 2y ago
Sipeed has announced that they'll release two new modules next months: the LM3A with a SpacemiT K1, and the LM5A with a EIC7700 that has 4×SiFive P550. [0] All of Sipeeds form factors are supposed to be upgradeable: laptops, tablet and SBC... but personally I would like to have it verified beforehand that all ports and functions are supported by the new module before switching. [0]: Twitter: <http://x.com/SipeedIO/status/1801460880481169735 http://x.com/SipeedIO/status/1801460880481169735>

fennecbutt 2y ago

Compute module !=sbc in my mind. It requires the physical ports etc and should be standalone, a compute module isn't designed to be standalone. Otherwise we could call an arduino an sbc

Neywiny 2y ago

I like the 0 indexing. I guess I don't understand the problem. If you don't want to buy the laptop, don't buy it? I'll note that an SBC and a SoM are different things. SoM (system on module)s are, as the name says, just one module out of many (usually with a carrier, I guess in this case that's laptop). An SBC is much more often designed to be standalone. I will note that those SoMs look suspiciously similar to SMARC SoMs. If so, you should be able to swap them out for ARM, x86, I guess RISC-V, etc modules as they get released. Some of those are indeed just laptop-y motherboards. Industry has had SoM carriers with swappable SoMs for ages. Just look up SMARC carrier. Any one of those should be able to take any SMARC SoM. Same thing with COM-Express. They have different sizes (type 10, type 6, some others I don't remember, where I think backwardsly 10 is the smallest). Interestingly I haven't been able to quickly find SMARC or CoME laptop carriers. So, if that's what these are, they're actually industry leading innovators instead of holding people back. These types of SoMs are even less wasteful. Things like USB hubs, ethernet PHYs, battery circuitry, video converters, all of those can stay on the carrier and the core functionality of the chip (CPU/SoC, flash, RAM) can get changed out as new ones come in. In a way, it may even be better than framework. Again, if this really is a set of SMARC carriers and not just them using the same form-factor or looking similar. > SBCs on a module That's an SoC on a module (though nobody says SoCoM) (or even worse, if it's also a SiP, a SoCiPoM). I don't think that's really a proper use of the term SBC. An SBC is a standalone, able to be used by itself product. Usually no need to buy anything else to adapt it to the outside world.

craftkiller 2y ago
> I like the 0 indexing. Thanks! > I guess I don't understand the problem. If you don't want to buy the laptop, don't buy it? The problem is I want a risc-v laptop, but I don't want many risc-v laptops. Before framework, if I bought one of these risc-v laptops then I would either be stuck at exactly that level of performance, with no ability to get chips with newer instructions (for example, the DeepComputing board that is going in the framework laptop does not have the vector extension), or I would have to upgrade at some point which previously necessitated getting another entire laptop which is needlessly wasteful. This isn't as much of a problem in the mainstream laptop market because advances from year to year are pretty small but risc-v is in a rapid development phase. > I'll note that an SBC and a SoM are different thing Are you saying that if I took a raspberry pi compute module and soldered power to the power pins, that it would not boot? Because if it would boot then its an SBC, just with a nifty form factor. I've not run that test myself, but my understanding was that all the necessary hardware was on the module itself and the carrier boards were just routing pins to PHYs for peripherals. > SMARC TIL about SMARC. It looks nice, and I agree that it could be less wasteful and therefore could be better. I guess it comes down to which level of interface will have the greatest longevity. A socketed processor is the least bundled and therefore potentially the least wasteful but then you're stuck with the pinout in your socket, for example, AM4 is stuck on DDR4 ram. SoMs like SMARC move the interface a bit further out by moving the ram to before the interface but it looks like you're limited to 4 lanes of PCIe, 2 USB 3.0 ports, there are 6 USB 2.0 ports which is silly in 2024, and there are even pins wasted on nearly-dead standards like SATA. And then there is the Framework option which moves the interface even further out, being more wasteful by having more stuff bundled on the board, but also achieving the most flexibility since you just need to drive 4 type-c ports, and the handful of onboard connectors like the eDP, webcam, battery, and speakers. If, in the future, USB 7.0 is still using the same type-c port, SSDs are using the new m.5 connector, and LPCAMM 4.0 is out using optical magic connectors, then the Framework shell is still good-to-go whereas a laptop SMARC carrier is not (as demonstrated by SMARC 2.0 not being backwards compatible). Personally, I think Framework is drawing the line at the right level to ensure longevity, but only time will tell. In the case of SMARC time has already told as we can see by them being stuck on USB 3.0.
- 2y ago

Findecanor 2y ago

Sipeed has announced that they'll release two new modules next months: the LM3A with a SpacemiT K1, and the LM5A with a EIC7700 that has 4×SiFive P550. [0] All of Sipeeds form factors are supposed to be upgradeable: laptops, tablet and SBC... but personally I would like to have it verified beforehand that all ports and functions are supported by the new module before switching. [0]: Twitter: <http://x.com/SipeedIO/status/1801460880481169735 http://x.com/SipeedIO/status/1801460880481169735>