4 ms·

I don't understand what you mean that SBCs are sold as entire laptops. SBC is Single Board Computer. Like a raspberry pi. A raspberry pi is not a laptop. If you

I don't understand what you mean that SBCs are sold as entire laptops. SBC is Single Board Computer. Like a raspberry pi. A raspberry pi is not a laptop. If you just look up "RISC-V SBC" none of them are laptops. Is the intent that you want the SoC to be socketed and easily replaceable like AM4 Ryzen?

DaoVeles 2y ago
I'm guessing things like PineBook. https://pine64.org/devices/pinebook_pro/ https://pine64.org/devices/pinebook_pro/
- Neywiny 2y ago
  Yes but that's not an SBC, that's a laptop. I don't understand who would call that an "SBC". I guess technically any laptop that's only 1 PCB is an SBC, but that still doesn't answer the original question of SBC -> Laptop.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    They are intentionally misusing the lingo to emphasize the fact that guts of a laptop are basically a single board computer. It is a bit of rhetorical flair.
    - Neywiny 2y ago
      in more discussion with them, that turns out to not be the case. It was a misunderstanding of what an SBC is.
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    I agree. If I order an SBC, I expect to be buying a minimum of exactly one bare PCB. If I'm feeling fancy, I'll add a power supply and a housing to that order -- and maybe a keyboard, a mouse, a display, and/or some storage or other accessories. But it's still rooted as a singular PCB, and that Single Board Computer can be made to do useful work with a minimum of help. This is profoundly distinct from when I order a laptop, wherein: I'm absolutely not buying a bare PCB. My laptop is, at minimum, absolutely going to include a screen, a keyboard, a pointer, a battery, a power supply, and a housing to tie it all together. --- If a laptop is an SBC, then a Playstation 5 is an SBC. A pocket supercomputer and an iPad are both SBCs. ONVIF camera? VoIP desk phone? SBC. Asus router? SBC. Wifi-connected light bulb? SBC! That's madness. If I'm buying a laptop, then I'm buying a laptop. This laptop may or may not contain an SBC, but it's primarily a laptop. We have a term for these things: It is "laptop." If I'm buying a light bulb, then I'm buying a light bulb. This light bulb may or may not contain an SBC, but it's primarily a light bulb. And if I'm buying an SBC, then I'm not implicitly buying anything more than a single-board computer. It is primarily an SBC. (We have a term for these things, too: It is "SBC.") This kind of excessive and deliberate ambiguation is as dumb as the term "loosing" was ten years ago, and it needs to stop.
    - Qwertious 2y ago
      TIL 50" smart TVs are SBCs.
craftkiller 2y ago
Often SBC makers will release a laptop with the same SoC and specs as the SBC, sometimes literally containing the SBC inside of them. The Sipeed Lichee Console 4A [0] contains the Lichee Module 4A (one of those SBCs on a module like the raspberry pi compute modules) and it looks like the Lichee book 4A is doing the same thing [1] The DC-Roma 2 [2] appears to be this sbc [3] adapted to a laptop. The Spacemit Muse Book [4] seems to be the Spacemit Muse pi adapted to a laptop [5] Banana Pi posted this youtube video [6] showing a laptop with "Banana Pi BPI-F3" in the title which is the name of one of their SBCs. [7] [0] https://liliputing.com/lichee-console-4a-is-a-mini-laptop-with-a-risc-v-processor-and-7-inch-display/ [1] https://www.cnx-software.com/2024/06/19/sipeed-lichee-book-4a-14-inch-modular-linux-laptop-launched-with-th1520-quad-core-risc-v-processor/ [2] https://store.deepcomputing.io/products/dc-roma-riscv-laptop-ii-with-octa-core-cpu [3] https://store.deepcomputing.io/products/risc-v-development-board-spacemit-muse-pi [4] https://www.spacemit.com/spacemit-muse/ [5] https://www.spacemit.com/spacemit-muse-pi/ [6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzod1yUzPhc [7] https://wiki.banana-pi.org/Banana_Pi_BPI-F3 > Is the intent that you want the SoC to be socketed and easily replaceable like AM4 Ryzen? Nope, the intent is I wanted exactly what just happened: swappable board inside a reusable shell. I don't want to get a DC-Roma 1 and then a DC-Roma 2, ending up with 2 entire laptops of e-waste when I should be able to upgrade boards and keep the screen/battery/keyboard/touchpad/webcam/speakers/microphone/fingerprint reader, ending up with 1 complete laptop of e-waste and 1 additional board of e-waste.
- fennecbutt 2y ago
  Compute module !=sbc in my mind. It requires the physical ports etc and should be standalone, a compute module isn't designed to be standalone. Otherwise we could call an arduino an sbc
- Neywiny 2y ago
  I like the 0 indexing. I guess I don't understand the problem. If you don't want to buy the laptop, don't buy it? I'll note that an SBC and a SoM are different things. SoM (system on module)s are, as the name says, just one module out of many (usually with a carrier, I guess in this case that's laptop). An SBC is much more often designed to be standalone. I will note that those SoMs look suspiciously similar to SMARC SoMs. If so, you should be able to swap them out for ARM, x86, I guess RISC-V, etc modules as they get released. Some of those are indeed just laptop-y motherboards. Industry has had SoM carriers with swappable SoMs for ages. Just look up SMARC carrier. Any one of those should be able to take any SMARC SoM. Same thing with COM-Express. They have different sizes (type 10, type 6, some others I don't remember, where I think backwardsly 10 is the smallest). Interestingly I haven't been able to quickly find SMARC or CoME laptop carriers. So, if that's what these are, they're actually industry leading innovators instead of holding people back. These types of SoMs are even less wasteful. Things like USB hubs, ethernet PHYs, battery circuitry, video converters, all of those can stay on the carrier and the core functionality of the chip (CPU/SoC, flash, RAM) can get changed out as new ones come in. In a way, it may even be better than framework. Again, if this really is a set of SMARC carriers and not just them using the same form-factor or looking similar. > SBCs on a module That's an SoC on a module (though nobody says SoCoM) (or even worse, if it's also a SiP, a SoCiPoM). I don't think that's really a proper use of the term SBC. An SBC is a standalone, able to be used by itself product. Usually no need to buy anything else to adapt it to the outside world.

DaoVeles 2y ago

I'm guessing things like PineBook. https://pine64.org/devices/pinebook_pro/ https://pine64.org/devices/pinebook_pro/

Neywiny 2y ago
Yes but that's not an SBC, that's a laptop. I don't understand who would call that an "SBC". I guess technically any laptop that's only 1 PCB is an SBC, but that still doesn't answer the original question of SBC -> Laptop.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  They are intentionally misusing the lingo to emphasize the fact that guts of a laptop are basically a single board computer. It is a bit of rhetorical flair.
  - Neywiny 2y ago
    in more discussion with them, that turns out to not be the case. It was a misunderstanding of what an SBC is.
- ssl-3 2y ago
  I agree. If I order an SBC, I expect to be buying a minimum of exactly one bare PCB. If I'm feeling fancy, I'll add a power supply and a housing to that order -- and maybe a keyboard, a mouse, a display, and/or some storage or other accessories. But it's still rooted as a singular PCB, and that Single Board Computer can be made to do useful work with a minimum of help. This is profoundly distinct from when I order a laptop, wherein: I'm absolutely not buying a bare PCB. My laptop is, at minimum, absolutely going to include a screen, a keyboard, a pointer, a battery, a power supply, and a housing to tie it all together. --- If a laptop is an SBC, then a Playstation 5 is an SBC. A pocket supercomputer and an iPad are both SBCs. ONVIF camera? VoIP desk phone? SBC. Asus router? SBC. Wifi-connected light bulb? SBC! That's madness. If I'm buying a laptop, then I'm buying a laptop. This laptop may or may not contain an SBC, but it's primarily a laptop. We have a term for these things: It is "laptop." If I'm buying a light bulb, then I'm buying a light bulb. This light bulb may or may not contain an SBC, but it's primarily a light bulb. And if I'm buying an SBC, then I'm not implicitly buying anything more than a single-board computer. It is primarily an SBC. (We have a term for these things, too: It is "SBC.") This kind of excessive and deliberate ambiguation is as dumb as the term "loosing" was ten years ago, and it needs to stop.
  - Qwertious 2y ago
    TIL 50" smart TVs are SBCs.

craftkiller 2y ago

Often SBC makers will release a laptop with the same SoC and specs as the SBC, sometimes literally containing the SBC inside of them. The Sipeed Lichee Console 4A [0] contains the Lichee Module 4A (one of those SBCs on a module like the raspberry pi compute modules) and it looks like the Lichee book 4A is doing the same thing [1] The DC-Roma 2 [2] appears to be this sbc [3] adapted to a laptop. The Spacemit Muse Book [4] seems to be the Spacemit Muse pi adapted to a laptop [5] Banana Pi posted this youtube video [6] showing a laptop with "Banana Pi BPI-F3" in the title which is the name of one of their SBCs. [7] [0] https://liliputing.com/lichee-console-4a-is-a-mini-laptop-with-a-risc-v-processor-and-7-inch-display/ [1] https://www.cnx-software.com/2024/06/19/sipeed-lichee-book-4a-14-inch-modular-linux-laptop-launched-with-th1520-quad-core-risc-v-processor/ [2] https://store.deepcomputing.io/products/dc-roma-riscv-laptop-ii-with-octa-core-cpu [3] https://store.deepcomputing.io/products/risc-v-development-board-spacemit-muse-pi [4] https://www.spacemit.com/spacemit-muse/ [5] https://www.spacemit.com/spacemit-muse-pi/ [6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzod1yUzPhc [7] https://wiki.banana-pi.org/Banana_Pi_BPI-F3 > Is the intent that you want the SoC to be socketed and easily replaceable like AM4 Ryzen? Nope, the intent is I wanted exactly what just happened: swappable board inside a reusable shell. I don't want to get a DC-Roma 1 and then a DC-Roma 2, ending up with 2 entire laptops of e-waste when I should be able to upgrade boards and keep the screen/battery/keyboard/touchpad/webcam/speakers/microphone/fingerprint reader, ending up with 1 complete laptop of e-waste and 1 additional board of e-waste.

fennecbutt 2y ago
Compute module !=sbc in my mind. It requires the physical ports etc and should be standalone, a compute module isn't designed to be standalone. Otherwise we could call an arduino an sbc
Neywiny 2y ago
I like the 0 indexing. I guess I don't understand the problem. If you don't want to buy the laptop, don't buy it? I'll note that an SBC and a SoM are different things. SoM (system on module)s are, as the name says, just one module out of many (usually with a carrier, I guess in this case that's laptop). An SBC is much more often designed to be standalone. I will note that those SoMs look suspiciously similar to SMARC SoMs. If so, you should be able to swap them out for ARM, x86, I guess RISC-V, etc modules as they get released. Some of those are indeed just laptop-y motherboards. Industry has had SoM carriers with swappable SoMs for ages. Just look up SMARC carrier. Any one of those should be able to take any SMARC SoM. Same thing with COM-Express. They have different sizes (type 10, type 6, some others I don't remember, where I think backwardsly 10 is the smallest). Interestingly I haven't been able to quickly find SMARC or CoME laptop carriers. So, if that's what these are, they're actually industry leading innovators instead of holding people back. These types of SoMs are even less wasteful. Things like USB hubs, ethernet PHYs, battery circuitry, video converters, all of those can stay on the carrier and the core functionality of the chip (CPU/SoC, flash, RAM) can get changed out as new ones come in. In a way, it may even be better than framework. Again, if this really is a set of SMARC carriers and not just them using the same form-factor or looking similar. > SBCs on a module That's an SoC on a module (though nobody says SoCoM) (or even worse, if it's also a SiP, a SoCiPoM). I don't think that's really a proper use of the term SBC. An SBC is a standalone, able to be used by itself product. Usually no need to buy anything else to adapt it to the outside world.