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Signal Foundation has already said they would leave the EU if Chat Control goes ahead. https://mastodon.world/@Mer__edith/112535616774247450 https://mastodon.w

Signal Foundation has already said they would leave the EU if Chat Control goes ahead. https://mastodon.world/@Mer__edith/112535616774247450 https://mastodon.world/@Mer__edith/112535616774247450

wafflemaker 2y ago
Thanks to hn crowd, who explained it's not super difficult (and not going to lie, summer $500 discount), a Google pixel phone, soon running GrapheneOS, is on it's way. Can GrapheneOS prevent detection of somebody sideloading Signal?
- Wytwwww 2y ago
  Probably not but you still need to have someone to someone to communicate with even if you manage to install it. If you can't get it on the mainstream app stores it will just be a niche app for "privacy nerds" and drug dealers (in the EU at least..)
  - pantalaimon 2y ago
    All the drug dealers are on Telegram already, they need a hassle free way to communicate with their customers.
    - dirigableuser 2y ago
      Customers as a voluminous body of users can't be underestimated as a solid block of shade for the whistleblowers and journalists
- amelius 2y ago
  Will you convince all your friends and family to start running GrapheneOS?
elric 2y ago
That's an interesting thread ... they claim they won't be compliant, which I applaud, but what will happen is that unwitting Signal users will end up being targeted by law enforcement. There are already precedents of people with "secure" phones or encrypted messaging apps being targeted, such as the Sky ECC case.
- pantalaimon 2y ago
  If Signal can’t be installed or updated via the App Store anyone, that’s already enough to exclude 99.9% of all users - no need to involve law enforcement.
  - elric 2y ago
    My point wasn't that there was a need to involve law enforcement. My point was that overzealous law enforcement will use this as yet another excuse to crack down on people who value privacy.
  - paledot 2y ago
    Fortunately, the EU is also mandating app store competition. :)
    - ivan_gammel 2y ago
      Only within EU which means that EU will have certain influence over those alt stores.
- Wytwwww 2y ago
  > will happen is that unwitting Signal users will end up being targeted by law enforcement Seems like a good thing. If nothing else works at least that might bring some attention to this nonsense..
  - b112 2y ago
    "Signal, unwilling to implement easy to build software to comply with EU regulations, likely due to fiscal concerns, has shown itself placing profit far above the care and concerns of our next generation, our children, and the pedophiles that prey upon them, such heinous creators of child porn." signed EU press release. And so, 96% of people now think Signal is evil.
londons_explore 2y ago
Signal isn't big enough to play that game. They'll just be blocked from the app store for EU users and their user base in the EU will drop to near zero within a year.
- issafram 2y ago
  You think 99.99% of Signal users are all in the EU?
- ggm 2y ago
  In the spirit of Erlich/Simons, if you define zero relative to current users, what % do you think will depart, and what does "zero" look like. Hint: I'm taking Simons' role in this: They won't drop to zero.
- diego_sandoval 2y ago
  I think it would be feasible for Whatsapp, Telegram and Signal to form a coalition that pledges to withdraw from any country or market that tries to pull these shenanigans, such that the sum of them is big enough to play that game. The hardest to convince would be Whatsapp, but I think that Zuckerberg is one of the few big tech CEOs that still has principles, at least sometimes. I think it could happen.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    > I think that Zuckerberg is one of the few big tech CEOs that still has principles "Still"? I'm not aware of a time when he's publicly shown any sort of principles.
    - diego_sandoval 2y ago
      https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-36187028 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-36187028 Google or Microsoft would just give up data of their users at the first request to avoid a ban. Sure, Meta can't * do it because of E2E, but that alone is much better than what Google does. * without pushing a malicious update.
consumer451 2y ago
I am so thankful that Signal Foundation exists, and refuses to be bullied.
- gpvos 2y ago
  True, but it won't make a difference.
  - pindab0ter 2y ago
    It sends a strong signal. I do think that makes a difference.

Signal Foundation has already said they would leave the EU if Chat Control goes ahead. https://mastodon.world/@Mer__edith/112535616774247450 https://mastodon.world/@Mer__edith/112535616774247450

wafflemaker 2y ago

Thanks to hn crowd, who explained it's not super difficult (and not going to lie, summer $500 discount), a Google pixel phone, soon running GrapheneOS, is on it's way. Can GrapheneOS prevent detection of somebody sideloading Signal?

Wytwwww 2y ago
Probably not but you still need to have someone to someone to communicate with even if you manage to install it. If you can't get it on the mainstream app stores it will just be a niche app for "privacy nerds" and drug dealers (in the EU at least..)
- pantalaimon 2y ago
  All the drug dealers are on Telegram already, they need a hassle free way to communicate with their customers.
  - dirigableuser 2y ago
    Customers as a voluminous body of users can't be underestimated as a solid block of shade for the whistleblowers and journalists
amelius 2y ago
Will you convince all your friends and family to start running GrapheneOS?

elric 2y ago

That's an interesting thread ... they claim they won't be compliant, which I applaud, but what will happen is that unwitting Signal users will end up being targeted by law enforcement. There are already precedents of people with "secure" phones or encrypted messaging apps being targeted, such as the Sky ECC case.

pantalaimon 2y ago
If Signal can’t be installed or updated via the App Store anyone, that’s already enough to exclude 99.9% of all users - no need to involve law enforcement.
- elric 2y ago
  My point wasn't that there was a need to involve law enforcement. My point was that overzealous law enforcement will use this as yet another excuse to crack down on people who value privacy.
- paledot 2y ago
  Fortunately, the EU is also mandating app store competition. :)
  - ivan_gammel 2y ago
    Only within EU which means that EU will have certain influence over those alt stores.
Wytwwww 2y ago
> will happen is that unwitting Signal users will end up being targeted by law enforcement Seems like a good thing. If nothing else works at least that might bring some attention to this nonsense..
- b112 2y ago
  "Signal, unwilling to implement easy to build software to comply with EU regulations, likely due to fiscal concerns, has shown itself placing profit far above the care and concerns of our next generation, our children, and the pedophiles that prey upon them, such heinous creators of child porn." signed EU press release. And so, 96% of people now think Signal is evil.

londons_explore 2y ago

Signal isn't big enough to play that game. They'll just be blocked from the app store for EU users and their user base in the EU will drop to near zero within a year.

issafram 2y ago
You think 99.99% of Signal users are all in the EU?
ggm 2y ago
In the spirit of Erlich/Simons, if you define zero relative to current users, what % do you think will depart, and what does "zero" look like. Hint: I'm taking Simons' role in this: They won't drop to zero.
diego_sandoval 2y ago
I think it would be feasible for Whatsapp, Telegram and Signal to form a coalition that pledges to withdraw from any country or market that tries to pull these shenanigans, such that the sum of them is big enough to play that game. The hardest to convince would be Whatsapp, but I think that Zuckerberg is one of the few big tech CEOs that still has principles, at least sometimes. I think it could happen.
- kelnos 2y ago
  > I think that Zuckerberg is one of the few big tech CEOs that still has principles "Still"? I'm not aware of a time when he's publicly shown any sort of principles.
  - diego_sandoval 2y ago
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-36187028 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-36187028 Google or Microsoft would just give up data of their users at the first request to avoid a ban. Sure, Meta can't * do it because of E2E, but that alone is much better than what Google does. * without pushing a malicious update.

consumer451 2y ago

I am so thankful that Signal Foundation exists, and refuses to be bullied.

gpvos 2y ago
True, but it won't make a difference.
- pindab0ter 2y ago
  It sends a strong signal. I do think that makes a difference.