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> Germany went the other way, rejecting nuclear and they are now dependant on carbon for their energy... As you can see the data does not support this claim of

> Germany went the other way, rejecting nuclear and they are now dependant on carbon for their energy... As you can see the data does not support this claim of yours. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-source-and-country?stackMode=absolute&country=~DEU https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-sou...

cubefox 2y ago
Total power consumption went down due to industry moving out of the country due to increasing electricity cost due the country exiting nuclear power. It's depressing.
- imtringued 2y ago
  What's depressing is how wrong your comment is. You seemingly ignored the Ukrainian war which has lead to sanctioning Russia and the end of cheap Russian oil and gas in Germany. Spot electricity prices are at pre-war levels nowadays, so whatever lack of nuclear power you are imagining is seemingly irrelevant.
  - cubefox 2y ago
    Demand for electricity went down due to increasing deindustrialization, which leads to a lower price than it otherwise would be.
    - jiggawatts 2y ago
      German machinery exports are growing, not shrinking: https://www.georesources.net/cms.php/en/news/755/Germany-Machinery-Exports-to-reach-Record-Level-in-2022 https://www.georesources.net/cms.php/en/news/755/Germany-Mac... There was a dip due to COVID, and it doesn't help matters that their biggest customer is China, which locked down their population for nearly a year during the pandemic. Sure, China makes widgets, but Germany makes the robots that make the widgets.
      - cubefox 2y ago
        "Machinery exports" growing doesn't mean industry isn't moving out of the country.
chickenbig 2y ago
So the link shows in 2001 nuclear generated 482.92 TWh; in 2022 wind plus solar generated 485.12 TWh. Granted coal was down in that time but gas was pretty much flat (except for 2022 when there were extenuating circumstances).
- cinntaile 2y ago
  The claim was that Germany has now become dependent on carbon based energy sources, the link I posted shows it has always been dependent on carbon based energy sources. The dependence hasn't changed all that much in the last 20 years, it went down a bit but not much.
  - cubefox 2y ago
    It probably would have gone down if nuclear energy wasn't outlawed.
    - cinntaile 2y ago
      It did go down, just not much. Would it have gone down more if nuclear was still on the table? Yes, that's very likely.
- imtringued 2y ago
  That is primary energy. Only one third of that can actually be turned into electricity.
  - chickenbig 2y ago
    Yes, I realised that while having trouble getting to sleep last night. France produces around 350-400TWh from nuclear, so that should have made me question the number I quoted. So the graph is a bit misleading in that various qualities of energy are lumped together.

cubefox 2y ago

Total power consumption went down due to industry moving out of the country due to increasing electricity cost due the country exiting nuclear power. It's depressing.

imtringued 2y ago
What's depressing is how wrong your comment is. You seemingly ignored the Ukrainian war which has lead to sanctioning Russia and the end of cheap Russian oil and gas in Germany. Spot electricity prices are at pre-war levels nowadays, so whatever lack of nuclear power you are imagining is seemingly irrelevant.
- cubefox 2y ago
  Demand for electricity went down due to increasing deindustrialization, which leads to a lower price than it otherwise would be.
  - jiggawatts 2y ago
    German machinery exports are growing, not shrinking: https://www.georesources.net/cms.php/en/news/755/Germany-Machinery-Exports-to-reach-Record-Level-in-2022 https://www.georesources.net/cms.php/en/news/755/Germany-Mac... There was a dip due to COVID, and it doesn't help matters that their biggest customer is China, which locked down their population for nearly a year during the pandemic. Sure, China makes widgets, but Germany makes the robots that make the widgets.
    - cubefox 2y ago
      "Machinery exports" growing doesn't mean industry isn't moving out of the country.

chickenbig 2y ago

So the link shows in 2001 nuclear generated 482.92 TWh; in 2022 wind plus solar generated 485.12 TWh. Granted coal was down in that time but gas was pretty much flat (except for 2022 when there were extenuating circumstances).

cinntaile 2y ago
The claim was that Germany has now become dependent on carbon based energy sources, the link I posted shows it has always been dependent on carbon based energy sources. The dependence hasn't changed all that much in the last 20 years, it went down a bit but not much.
- cubefox 2y ago
  It probably would have gone down if nuclear energy wasn't outlawed.
  - cinntaile 2y ago
    It did go down, just not much. Would it have gone down more if nuclear was still on the table? Yes, that's very likely.
imtringued 2y ago
That is primary energy. Only one third of that can actually be turned into electricity.
- chickenbig 2y ago
  Yes, I realised that while having trouble getting to sleep last night. France produces around 350-400TWh from nuclear, so that should have made me question the number I quoted. So the graph is a bit misleading in that various qualities of energy are lumped together.