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For coin sized batteries only. > The ceramic material used by TDK means that larger-sized batteries would be more fragile, meaning the technical challenge of m

by Carrok 2y ago

For coin sized batteries only. > The ceramic material used by TDK means that larger-sized batteries would be more fragile, meaning the technical challenge of making batteries for cars or even smartphones will not be surmounted in the foreseeable future, according to the company.

practicemaths 2y ago
Battery technology starts at the cell. It's far easier to build a small cell and test it's chemistry than it is to build a large (in comparison) battery.
- perilunar 2y ago
  Indeed. A battery is a battery of cells.
nsxwolf 2y ago
Your original Legend of Zelda saves could last 300-400 years with this battery.
- Qwertious 2y ago
  That's longer than an SSD can last.
  - RicoElectrico 2y ago
    SRAM however won't be affected by electrons escaping from the floating gate as in Flash. It's two inverters back-to-back.
    - tromp 2y ago
      It's usually 6 transistors, 4 of which form 2 cross-coupled inverters [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_random-access_memory#Design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_random-access_memory#De...
swiftcoder 2y ago
Coin-sized batteries are pretty usable for many current applications (wireless headphones, smart watches, ...) - presuming they can surmount the other challenges
- aporetics 2y ago
  I’m thinking: minidisc players!
- stn_za 2y ago
  Plus these would be coin sized, but 100X more dense as I understand.
  - MBCook 2y ago
    100x their current solid state batteries, not Lithium Ion. Maybe only 2x. Still, doubling an Apple Watch’s battery life or 1.5x but making it smaller would still be great.
    - dylan604 2y ago
      Apple Watch's battery life is the biggest negative by far for the device in my books. Any thing to improve it would be welcomed by pretty much anyone. Extra points for being able to replace existing battery--yeah right
r00fus 2y ago
Is it even rechargeable? Nothing indicates this is any replacement to e.g. LiPoFe batteries in devices like AirPods.
- dylan604 2y ago
  > Is it even rechargeable? From the TFA: "Solid-state batteries are safer, lighter and potentially cheaper and offer longer performance and faster charging than current batteries relying on liquid electrolytes." The article to me is worse than click bait. They keep mentioning Apple supplier TDK as if this battery is currently being used in Apple devices. The only link this battery has to Apple is that they use other batteries from the company. So, yes, you're correct in that nothing indicates this as a direct replacement. It is shitty journo looking for relevancy in SEO
nkingsy 2y ago
Can’t they just stack these into packs like they do with cells?
jerlam 2y ago
What stops them from having huge arrays of these coin cell batteries? Can the "insane energy density" compensate for the overhead? Cars don't have one huge battery, and smartphones are starting to have multiple smaller ones to fit around the other components (and in folding phones).
- mcculley 2y ago
  If the weight and volume of the packaging is a lot relative to the size of the cell, that would limit use cases.
- danudey 2y ago
  Conversely, smartphones could have batteries 1/100th the size of their current batteries and still have the same battery life. Nothing says that if we want to use this tech in smartphones we have to have 100x the battery life (although that would be fantastic). Even 2x or 3x would be game-changing for power users, especially if battery performance degraded at only the same rate that current smartphone batteries do. You wouldn't need a huge array of coin cell batteries; one coin cell might well be enough.
  - miahi 2y ago
    The article says "100 times greater than TDK’s current battery in mass production" but they are not referring to the current LiIon/LiPo batteries, but the current _solid state_ battery. The capacity per liter of the new solid state battery is less than 2x of the current phone batteries (1000Wh/liter vs 5-700Wh/liter for LiPo). So no, you cannot replace one phone battery with a coin cell with the same battery life.
    - danudey 2y ago
      Oh, good catch. Thanks for the correction!
m3kw9 2y ago
They always test first on coin batteries then scale up the tests

by Carrok 2y ago

practicemaths 2y ago

Battery technology starts at the cell. It's far easier to build a small cell and test it's chemistry than it is to build a large (in comparison) battery.

perilunar 2y ago
Indeed. A battery is a battery of cells.

nsxwolf 2y ago

Your original Legend of Zelda saves could last 300-400 years with this battery.

Qwertious 2y ago
That's longer than an SSD can last.
- RicoElectrico 2y ago
  SRAM however won't be affected by electrons escaping from the floating gate as in Flash. It's two inverters back-to-back.
  - tromp 2y ago
    It's usually 6 transistors, 4 of which form 2 cross-coupled inverters [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_random-access_memory#Design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_random-access_memory#De...

swiftcoder 2y ago

Coin-sized batteries are pretty usable for many current applications (wireless headphones, smart watches, ...) - presuming they can surmount the other challenges

aporetics 2y ago
I’m thinking: minidisc players!
stn_za 2y ago
Plus these would be coin sized, but 100X more dense as I understand.
- MBCook 2y ago
  100x their current solid state batteries, not Lithium Ion. Maybe only 2x. Still, doubling an Apple Watch’s battery life or 1.5x but making it smaller would still be great.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    Apple Watch's battery life is the biggest negative by far for the device in my books. Any thing to improve it would be welcomed by pretty much anyone. Extra points for being able to replace existing battery--yeah right

r00fus 2y ago

Is it even rechargeable? Nothing indicates this is any replacement to e.g. LiPoFe batteries in devices like AirPods.

dylan604 2y ago
> Is it even rechargeable? From the TFA: "Solid-state batteries are safer, lighter and potentially cheaper and offer longer performance and faster charging than current batteries relying on liquid electrolytes." The article to me is worse than click bait. They keep mentioning Apple supplier TDK as if this battery is currently being used in Apple devices. The only link this battery has to Apple is that they use other batteries from the company. So, yes, you're correct in that nothing indicates this as a direct replacement. It is shitty journo looking for relevancy in SEO

nkingsy 2y ago

Can’t they just stack these into packs like they do with cells?

jerlam 2y ago

What stops them from having huge arrays of these coin cell batteries? Can the "insane energy density" compensate for the overhead? Cars don't have one huge battery, and smartphones are starting to have multiple smaller ones to fit around the other components (and in folding phones).

mcculley 2y ago
If the weight and volume of the packaging is a lot relative to the size of the cell, that would limit use cases.
danudey 2y ago
Conversely, smartphones could have batteries 1/100th the size of their current batteries and still have the same battery life. Nothing says that if we want to use this tech in smartphones we have to have 100x the battery life (although that would be fantastic). Even 2x or 3x would be game-changing for power users, especially if battery performance degraded at only the same rate that current smartphone batteries do. You wouldn't need a huge array of coin cell batteries; one coin cell might well be enough.
- miahi 2y ago
  The article says "100 times greater than TDK’s current battery in mass production" but they are not referring to the current LiIon/LiPo batteries, but the current _solid state_ battery. The capacity per liter of the new solid state battery is less than 2x of the current phone batteries (1000Wh/liter vs 5-700Wh/liter for LiPo). So no, you cannot replace one phone battery with a coin cell with the same battery life.
  - danudey 2y ago
    Oh, good catch. Thanks for the correction!

m3kw9 2y ago

They always test first on coin batteries then scale up the tests