8 ms·

Lindroid

262 points by LorenDB 2y ago

hggh 2y ago
Readable version: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1802331845633212554.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1802331845633212554.html
Y_Y 2y ago
> full hw accelerated Linux on your Android as an app Might be worth adding that excerpt to the title, as well as changing the link to hggh's thread reader version without which I can't see anything.
- LorenDB 2y ago
  Unfortunately I can't edit the title at this point. As for the link, HN wants posts to link to primary sources instead of alternative front ends (archive.today, Nitter, Thread Reader).
  - ptero 2y ago
    I think linking source is a general preference, not a hard rule. In this case (convenient full view vs clicking on chunks) it is easy to justify ignoring this preference.
fsflover 2y ago
> full hw accelerated Linux on your Android as an app At this point, you can just run full GNU/Linux on a phone. Sent from my Librem 5.
- nsonha 2y ago
  on "some" phones
- kennywinker 2y ago
  There is a unique use case for running linux as an app vs as the base OS. Seems to me it's a lot like the difference between booting linux and using WSL to run linux inside windows.
  - fsflover 2y ago
    "Unique" as in "reuse my old Android", which may not be secure after the support has ended. I see no other use cases.
- bsimpson 2y ago
  "Is it any good?" is its own question. I went down this rabbit hole trying to see how to make the non-gaming side of a Steam handheld feel like a tablet, and was surprised/disappointed at how spartan the touch-based Linux ecosystem is. There are half a dozen projects trying to make it happen, but they're all really small and mostly independent. There's one guy working on GNOME for mobile, one working on the Maui system for Nitrux…. Canonical gave up on Ubuntu for mobile, so some guy revived that. I haven't been able to try Plasma Mobile 6 because it's not packaged for NixOS, but v5 wasn't usable. Phosh was poorly packaged as well, so I didn't invest much effort there. Making a good touch UI is a ton of work, but the space so far seems to be mostly filled with people doing hobby projects (or closed ones like Sailfish).
  - fsflover 2y ago
    > Phosh was poorly packaged as well, so I didn't invest much effort there. Phosh comes with some OSes by default: https://phosh.mobi/faq/ https://phosh.mobi/faq/ > "Is it any good?" is its own question. Depends on your needs. Daily driver for me.
- talldayo 2y ago
  For a lot of handsets that don't have an unlocked bootloader this is literally not true, even if it does have working Linux drivers.
- discordance 2y ago
  Yeah great, although I am keen to see if this eventually will run on something like an Amazon Fire Stick or one of those old Androids in my drawer.
  - fsflover 2y ago
    It won't, due the closed specs and proprietary drivers.
- roywashere 2y ago
  Sure, but most people might need their phone to do banking apps or apps like WhatsApp, Spotify or Maps which are not available on your phone. This allows people to run GNU apps on their android phone so they can have both
  - fsflover 2y ago
    You can do it with Waydroid (if your bank doesn't force you into the duopoly, at which point you should complain or switch). See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40714592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40714592
    - 4ggr0 2y ago
      > at which point you should complain or switch if only switching banks for such things was easy and realistically doable... hate that banking apps are such a hassle to live with, but i do kinda get why they're very protective.
      - fsflover 2y ago
        > i do kinda get why they're very protective. I am not sure if a typical Android with a bunch of (preinstalled!) crappy apps is more secure than a GNU/Linux phone relying solely on FLOSS repos. Changing banks can be easier or harder, depending on your country. People do it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40678203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40678203
        4ggr0 2y ago
        isn't it just about banks not wanting to open-source their apps or connection details for supposed security or other reasons? > changing banks can be easier or harder well the process of changing banks is not the problem, i did leave UBS and Credit Suisse a couple of years ago. but now i'm with a bank i specifically chose because they're actually not financing wars or other unethical things, instead of just saying so for greenwashing purposes. this aspect is more important to me than them open-sourcing their infrastructure.
tetris11 2y ago
(I suppose I must be blind) Where are the APKs?
- aadhavans 2y ago
  From the Twitter thread, their github appears to be https://github.com/linux-on-droid https://github.com/linux-on-droid. I don't see APKs in any of the repos, though.
- LorenDB 2y ago
  I don't think they've released APKs yet from how the Twitter thread is worded.
  - freedomben 2y ago
    I think you're right. Also, I think I have a different definition of "ready" than OP
figmert 2y ago
I'm currently in the process of trying to see if Samsung DeX is able to replace my laptop. It is running directly on Termux, as opposed to using something like proot. So far it seems promising, and the biggest thing issue I have is that the Termux-X11 session essentially acts like a VM in that shortcuts are not seemless. I'd love to know how this compares to that. Or maybe there's a way to make that more seemless. E.g. if apps would be shown as Android apps as far as the launcher is concerned.
- anonzzzies 2y ago
  I work a lot in Dex and VNC via vr glasses and the shortcuts are the biggest issue. That’s why I want full Linux; I would like a phone size device without a screen running Linux with unlocked bootloader and usb vo (otherwise it’s still worthless), but, while trivial hardware wise (there are plenty of boards), this formfactor is not there it seems. And the slightly bigger ones that are there, are made for a reason (usually gaming) so they don’t care about battery life. My android phone gets well over a day while powering my glasses and me working.
  - sriacha 2y ago
    Can you share which glasses and what kinds of environment you use with Dex? Termux?
- Y_Y 2y ago
  Emacs-termux is awkward to get working initially, but it gives you more-or-less full emacs as an Android app, but sharing storage/namespace with termux so that they both have access to the same binaries and documents. There isn't a good project page, it's based at this sourceforgw page and has a surprisingly comprehensive readme. https://sourceforge.net/projects/android-ports-for-gnu-emacs/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/android-ports-for-gnu-emacs...
  - qwertox 2y ago
    SourceForge [0]... the Sony [1] of software development. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SourceForge#Adware_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SourceForge#Adware_controversy [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootk...
janice1999 2y ago
Video about the project from Volla Community Days: https://www.youtube.com/live/7vF5647gNbo?si=NC_QytRezsgDCQV5 https://www.youtube.com/live/7vF5647gNbo?si=NC_QytRezsgDCQV5
- brunoqc 2y ago
  Do you have a timestamp? EDIT: https://youtu.be/7vF5647gNbo?t=14340 https://youtu.be/7vF5647gNbo?t=14340 maybe
john01dav 2y ago
Is there somewhere where I can sign up to be emailed or otherwise notified when this is ready? I want to try it but from the lack of APKs or other introductory materials, it seems to not be ready.
fock 2y ago
"needs root and patches to AOSP". So there go the banking apps mentioned elsewhere and you can just use postmarketOS. Still cool though!
- bboygravity 2y ago
  I have a rooted phone and when you hide root (using Magisk app) all banking apps work just fine?
  - kiney 2y ago
    Some, not all. Last time I checked magisk wasn't able to fake safetynet hardwareattestation
    - igor47 2y ago
      Yup. I gave up on trying to get Google wallet / Android pay to work on my lineage device. I got it working sometimes but it broke after update and just wasn't reliable enough to keep trying when paying for stuff. I'm not really sure whom they're protecting with this stuff -- the credit card processing companies, maybe?
      - JonChesterfield 2y ago
        wallet doesn't work reliably on a non-rooted pixel phone with approximately zero software installed on it either, you may not be doing anything wrong
      - kotaKat 2y ago
        As far as I also understand Google Messages now uses this as well to gatekeep access to carrier RCS. https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/1/24087418/google-messages-blocking-rcs-on-rooted-android-devices https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/1/24087418/google-messages-b...
        phh 2y ago
zokier 2y ago
Neat project, but hate the branding. Android is Linux. I think it's really important to recognize that. Linux is not just not the one traditional POSIX style system, it's a platform to build all sorts of systems, including Android.
- denysvitali 2y ago
  I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/LInux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
  - pta2002 2y ago
    Ironically, in this specific instance (Android), it actually _isn't_ GNU/Linux. Distros like Alpine also aren't GNU/Linux.
    - denysvitali 2y ago
      True, but it was still worth the meme (:
  - KingOfLechia 2y ago
    [dead]
user070223 2y ago
See also @kdrag0n 's work; putting Virtualized linux (and windows) on Android phones. Our phones might be our next Desktops/Laptops/main personal computing device: 1. local first (you do go to the bathroom/gas station with your phone) 2. portable 3. reduce ewaste, money spent The lack of convenience in the form of larger screen might be mitigated using smart glasses, projector(unihertz tank 3 has built in), or just connect to an external monitor Snapdragon 8 gen 3 performs like cpu from 2020 and midtier gpu from 2016 AVF might ship with android 15 as Mainline module (One need kernel 5.10+) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30322035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30322035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30328692 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30328692
- fsflover 2y ago
  > Our phones might be our next Desktops/Laptops/main personal computing device https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19328085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19328085
- user070223 2y ago
  Forgot to mention windows on arm is progressing (qcom snapdragon elite chipset on microsoft surface devices), qcom gunyah hypervisor, MediaTek's GenieZone hypervisor, winlator
- dTal 2y ago
  I just want a GPD Micro PC with a cell modem...
jacek 2y ago
I would love to try it out on my Android tablet. Being able to run Linux with a real desktop browser and development environment would be really amazing.
karussell 2y ago
How does it compare to Termux / UserLAnd? See https://termux.dev https://termux.dev and https://userland.tech https://userland.tech For my purposes Lindroid seems less powerful as it requires root and AOSP patches.
- nolist_policy 2y ago
  Userland is dog slow since it's based on proot. Termux needs to patch most of it's packages and is limited in what it can run since everything links to bionic libc.
  - karussell 2y ago
    Interesting. For me Userland is usable and not really slow.
    - nsonha 2y ago
      usable to do what? Docker is a basic requirement to do any dev work these days and Userland cannot run it
Dwedit 2y ago
Can it run Wine + FEX Emu?
- unixhero 2y ago
  Well it is Linux
- nathanasmith 2y ago
  You can run Wine and Windows applications on Android quite effectively with https://github.com/brunodev85/winlator https://github.com/brunodev85/winlator So I imagine this will be at least as good.
unixhero 2y ago
When is this a useful thing to have?

262 points by LorenDB 2y ago

hggh 2y ago

Readable version: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1802331845633212554.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1802331845633212554.html

Y_Y 2y ago

> full hw accelerated Linux on your Android as an app Might be worth adding that excerpt to the title, as well as changing the link to hggh's thread reader version without which I can't see anything.

LorenDB 2y ago
Unfortunately I can't edit the title at this point. As for the link, HN wants posts to link to primary sources instead of alternative front ends (archive.today, Nitter, Thread Reader).
- ptero 2y ago
  I think linking source is a general preference, not a hard rule. In this case (convenient full view vs clicking on chunks) it is easy to justify ignoring this preference.

fsflover 2y ago

> full hw accelerated Linux on your Android as an app At this point, you can just run full GNU/Linux on a phone. Sent from my Librem 5.

nsonha 2y ago
on "some" phones
kennywinker 2y ago
There is a unique use case for running linux as an app vs as the base OS. Seems to me it's a lot like the difference between booting linux and using WSL to run linux inside windows.
- fsflover 2y ago
  "Unique" as in "reuse my old Android", which may not be secure after the support has ended. I see no other use cases.
bsimpson 2y ago
"Is it any good?" is its own question. I went down this rabbit hole trying to see how to make the non-gaming side of a Steam handheld feel like a tablet, and was surprised/disappointed at how spartan the touch-based Linux ecosystem is. There are half a dozen projects trying to make it happen, but they're all really small and mostly independent. There's one guy working on GNOME for mobile, one working on the Maui system for Nitrux…. Canonical gave up on Ubuntu for mobile, so some guy revived that. I haven't been able to try Plasma Mobile 6 because it's not packaged for NixOS, but v5 wasn't usable. Phosh was poorly packaged as well, so I didn't invest much effort there. Making a good touch UI is a ton of work, but the space so far seems to be mostly filled with people doing hobby projects (or closed ones like Sailfish).
- fsflover 2y ago
  > Phosh was poorly packaged as well, so I didn't invest much effort there. Phosh comes with some OSes by default: https://phosh.mobi/faq/ https://phosh.mobi/faq/ > "Is it any good?" is its own question. Depends on your needs. Daily driver for me.
talldayo 2y ago
For a lot of handsets that don't have an unlocked bootloader this is literally not true, even if it does have working Linux drivers.
discordance 2y ago
Yeah great, although I am keen to see if this eventually will run on something like an Amazon Fire Stick or one of those old Androids in my drawer.
- fsflover 2y ago
  It won't, due the closed specs and proprietary drivers.
roywashere 2y ago
Sure, but most people might need their phone to do banking apps or apps like WhatsApp, Spotify or Maps which are not available on your phone. This allows people to run GNU apps on their android phone so they can have both
- fsflover 2y ago
  You can do it with Waydroid (if your bank doesn't force you into the duopoly, at which point you should complain or switch). See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40714592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40714592
  - 4ggr0 2y ago
    > at which point you should complain or switch if only switching banks for such things was easy and realistically doable... hate that banking apps are such a hassle to live with, but i do kinda get why they're very protective.
    - fsflover 2y ago
      > i do kinda get why they're very protective. I am not sure if a typical Android with a bunch of (preinstalled!) crappy apps is more secure than a GNU/Linux phone relying solely on FLOSS repos. Changing banks can be easier or harder, depending on your country. People do it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40678203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40678203
      - 4ggr0 2y ago
        isn't it just about banks not wanting to open-source their apps or connection details for supposed security or other reasons? > changing banks can be easier or harder well the process of changing banks is not the problem, i did leave UBS and Credit Suisse a couple of years ago. but now i'm with a bank i specifically chose because they're actually not financing wars or other unethical things, instead of just saying so for greenwashing purposes. this aspect is more important to me than them open-sourcing their infrastructure.

tetris11 2y ago

(I suppose I must be blind) Where are the APKs?

aadhavans 2y ago
From the Twitter thread, their github appears to be https://github.com/linux-on-droid https://github.com/linux-on-droid. I don't see APKs in any of the repos, though.
LorenDB 2y ago
I don't think they've released APKs yet from how the Twitter thread is worded.
- freedomben 2y ago
  I think you're right. Also, I think I have a different definition of "ready" than OP

figmert 2y ago

I'm currently in the process of trying to see if Samsung DeX is able to replace my laptop. It is running directly on Termux, as opposed to using something like proot. So far it seems promising, and the biggest thing issue I have is that the Termux-X11 session essentially acts like a VM in that shortcuts are not seemless. I'd love to know how this compares to that. Or maybe there's a way to make that more seemless. E.g. if apps would be shown as Android apps as far as the launcher is concerned.

anonzzzies 2y ago
I work a lot in Dex and VNC via vr glasses and the shortcuts are the biggest issue. That’s why I want full Linux; I would like a phone size device without a screen running Linux with unlocked bootloader and usb vo (otherwise it’s still worthless), but, while trivial hardware wise (there are plenty of boards), this formfactor is not there it seems. And the slightly bigger ones that are there, are made for a reason (usually gaming) so they don’t care about battery life. My android phone gets well over a day while powering my glasses and me working.
- sriacha 2y ago
  Can you share which glasses and what kinds of environment you use with Dex? Termux?
Y_Y 2y ago
Emacs-termux is awkward to get working initially, but it gives you more-or-less full emacs as an Android app, but sharing storage/namespace with termux so that they both have access to the same binaries and documents. There isn't a good project page, it's based at this sourceforgw page and has a surprisingly comprehensive readme. https://sourceforge.net/projects/android-ports-for-gnu-emacs/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/android-ports-for-gnu-emacs...
- qwertox 2y ago
  SourceForge [0]... the Sony [1] of software development. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SourceForge#Adware_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SourceForge#Adware_controversy [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootk...

janice1999 2y ago

Video about the project from Volla Community Days: https://www.youtube.com/live/7vF5647gNbo?si=NC_QytRezsgDCQV5 https://www.youtube.com/live/7vF5647gNbo?si=NC_QytRezsgDCQV5

brunoqc 2y ago
Do you have a timestamp? EDIT: https://youtu.be/7vF5647gNbo?t=14340 https://youtu.be/7vF5647gNbo?t=14340 maybe

john01dav 2y ago

Is there somewhere where I can sign up to be emailed or otherwise notified when this is ready? I want to try it but from the lack of APKs or other introductory materials, it seems to not be ready.

fock 2y ago

"needs root and patches to AOSP". So there go the banking apps mentioned elsewhere and you can just use postmarketOS. Still cool though!

bboygravity 2y ago
I have a rooted phone and when you hide root (using Magisk app) all banking apps work just fine?
- kiney 2y ago
  Some, not all. Last time I checked magisk wasn't able to fake safetynet hardwareattestation
  - igor47 2y ago
    Yup. I gave up on trying to get Google wallet / Android pay to work on my lineage device. I got it working sometimes but it broke after update and just wasn't reliable enough to keep trying when paying for stuff. I'm not really sure whom they're protecting with this stuff -- the credit card processing companies, maybe?
    - JonChesterfield 2y ago
      wallet doesn't work reliably on a non-rooted pixel phone with approximately zero software installed on it either, you may not be doing anything wrong
    - kotaKat 2y ago
      As far as I also understand Google Messages now uses this as well to gatekeep access to carrier RCS. https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/1/24087418/google-messages-blocking-rcs-on-rooted-android-devices https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/1/24087418/google-messages-b...
      - phh 2y ago

zokier 2y ago

Neat project, but hate the branding. Android is Linux. I think it's really important to recognize that. Linux is not just not the one traditional POSIX style system, it's a platform to build all sorts of systems, including Android.

denysvitali 2y ago
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/LInux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
- pta2002 2y ago
  Ironically, in this specific instance (Android), it actually _isn't_ GNU/Linux. Distros like Alpine also aren't GNU/Linux.
  - denysvitali 2y ago
    True, but it was still worth the meme (:
- KingOfLechia 2y ago
  [dead]

user070223 2y ago

See also @kdrag0n 's work; putting Virtualized linux (and windows) on Android phones. Our phones might be our next Desktops/Laptops/main personal computing device: 1. local first (you do go to the bathroom/gas station with your phone) 2. portable 3. reduce ewaste, money spent The lack of convenience in the form of larger screen might be mitigated using smart glasses, projector(unihertz tank 3 has built in), or just connect to an external monitor Snapdragon 8 gen 3 performs like cpu from 2020 and midtier gpu from 2016 AVF might ship with android 15 as Mainline module (One need kernel 5.10+) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30322035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30322035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30328692 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30328692

fsflover 2y ago
> Our phones might be our next Desktops/Laptops/main personal computing device https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19328085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19328085
user070223 2y ago
Forgot to mention windows on arm is progressing (qcom snapdragon elite chipset on microsoft surface devices), qcom gunyah hypervisor, MediaTek's GenieZone hypervisor, winlator
dTal 2y ago
I just want a GPD Micro PC with a cell modem...

jacek 2y ago

I would love to try it out on my Android tablet. Being able to run Linux with a real desktop browser and development environment would be really amazing.

karussell 2y ago

How does it compare to Termux / UserLAnd? See https://termux.dev https://termux.dev and https://userland.tech https://userland.tech For my purposes Lindroid seems less powerful as it requires root and AOSP patches.

nolist_policy 2y ago
Userland is dog slow since it's based on proot. Termux needs to patch most of it's packages and is limited in what it can run since everything links to bionic libc.
- karussell 2y ago
  Interesting. For me Userland is usable and not really slow.
  - nsonha 2y ago
    usable to do what? Docker is a basic requirement to do any dev work these days and Userland cannot run it

Dwedit 2y ago

Can it run Wine + FEX Emu?

unixhero 2y ago
Well it is Linux
nathanasmith 2y ago
You can run Wine and Windows applications on Android quite effectively with https://github.com/brunodev85/winlator https://github.com/brunodev85/winlator So I imagine this will be at least as good.

unixhero 2y ago

When is this a useful thing to have?