5 ms·

To the best of my understanding, no and I'm aware of any proposed mechanism.

by ch4s3 2y ago

alkonaut 2y ago
Isn’t the article describing in depth how an experiment showed it possible or did I completely misread it? It even explained the mechanisms behind it?
- ch4s3 2y ago
  The article glosses over some details of a decade old study, that might have maybe shown that some types of conditioning using electrical shock might have epigenetic effects that persist in gametes and effect later behavior. The study attempts to show it indirectly and hand waves at the mechanisms. It doesn’t test for DNA methylation or anything similar.
  - oa335 2y ago
    They did test for and find hypomethylation. It’s mentioned in the article here: > How had this happened? The team discovered that the DNA in the grandfather mouse’s sperm had changed shape. … The gene for this olfactory receptor had been demethylated (chemically tagged), … As well as in the abstract of the linked study: > Bisulfite sequencing of sperm DNA from conditioned F0 males and F1 naive offspring revealed CpG hypomethylation in the Olfr151 gene. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24292232/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24292232/
    - ch4s3 2y ago
      I must have missed that reading the study, and that certainly is a little more compelling. I'm still very skeptical about the way the guardian article presents the claims, and the lack of any mention of follow up work since the decade old study.
amelius 2y ago
From TFA: > The study made use of mice’s love of cherries. Typically, when a waft of sweet cherry scent reaches a mouse’s nose, a signal is sent to the nucleus accumbens, causing this pleasure zone to light up and motivate the mouse to scurry around in search of the treat. The scientists exposed a group of mice first to a cherry-like smell and then immediately to a mild electric shock. The mice quickly learned to freeze in anticipation every time they smelled cherries. They had pups, and their pups were left to lead happy lives without electric shocks, though with no access to cherries. The pups grew up and had offspring of their own. > At this point, the scientists took up the experiment again. Could the acquired association of a shock with the sweet smell possibly have been transmitted to the third generation? It had. The grandpups were highly fearful of and more sensitive to the smell of cherries.
- ch4s3 2y ago
  I read the underlying study. It’s pretty shy on experimental details, and while an epigenetic change is the possible mechanism they don’t directly show that. It’s also a huge leap from the guardian article’s claim that memories are inherited.
  - moralestapia 2y ago
    They're not claiming that, though.
    - ch4s3 2y ago
      The article includes this passage: > Might this new understanding increase our capacity for self-awareness and empathy? If we can grasp the potential impact of our ancestors’ experiences on our own behaviour, might we be more understanding of others, who are also carrying the inherited weight of experience? They are literally refereeing to the concept of inherited trauma and inter-generational memory throughout the piece. It's a favorite hobby-horse of the guardian and while they are somewhat subtle here and dress it up by picking a very old study, they are in fact talking about the kind of ideas appearing in popular self help books like The Body Keeps the Score, and other things in their orbit. The author of the article in question is hawking a similar book on the guardian's books platform.

To the best of my understanding, no and I'm aware of any proposed mechanism.

by ch4s3 2y ago

To the best of my understanding, no and I'm aware of any proposed mechanism.

Isn’t the article describing in depth how an experiment showed it possible or did I completely misread it? It even explained the mechanisms behind it?

ch4s3 2y ago
The article glosses over some details of a decade old study, that might have maybe shown that some types of conditioning using electrical shock might have epigenetic effects that persist in gametes and effect later behavior. The study attempts to show it indirectly and hand waves at the mechanisms. It doesn’t test for DNA methylation or anything similar.
- oa335 2y ago
  They did test for and find hypomethylation. It’s mentioned in the article here: > How had this happened? The team discovered that the DNA in the grandfather mouse’s sperm had changed shape. … The gene for this olfactory receptor had been demethylated (chemically tagged), … As well as in the abstract of the linked study: > Bisulfite sequencing of sperm DNA from conditioned F0 males and F1 naive offspring revealed CpG hypomethylation in the Olfr151 gene. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24292232/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24292232/
  - ch4s3 2y ago
    I must have missed that reading the study, and that certainly is a little more compelling. I'm still very skeptical about the way the guardian article presents the claims, and the lack of any mention of follow up work since the decade old study.

amelius 2y ago

From TFA: > The study made use of mice’s love of cherries. Typically, when a waft of sweet cherry scent reaches a mouse’s nose, a signal is sent to the nucleus accumbens, causing this pleasure zone to light up and motivate the mouse to scurry around in search of the treat. The scientists exposed a group of mice first to a cherry-like smell and then immediately to a mild electric shock. The mice quickly learned to freeze in anticipation every time they smelled cherries. They had pups, and their pups were left to lead happy lives without electric shocks, though with no access to cherries. The pups grew up and had offspring of their own. > At this point, the scientists took up the experiment again. Could the acquired association of a shock with the sweet smell possibly have been transmitted to the third generation? It had. The grandpups were highly fearful of and more sensitive to the smell of cherries.

ch4s3 2y ago
I read the underlying study. It’s pretty shy on experimental details, and while an epigenetic change is the possible mechanism they don’t directly show that. It’s also a huge leap from the guardian article’s claim that memories are inherited.
- moralestapia 2y ago
  They're not claiming that, though.
  - ch4s3 2y ago
    The article includes this passage: > Might this new understanding increase our capacity for self-awareness and empathy? If we can grasp the potential impact of our ancestors’ experiences on our own behaviour, might we be more understanding of others, who are also carrying the inherited weight of experience? They are literally refereeing to the concept of inherited trauma and inter-generational memory throughout the piece. It's a favorite hobby-horse of the guardian and while they are somewhat subtle here and dress it up by picking a very old study, they are in fact talking about the kind of ideas appearing in popular self help books like The Body Keeps the Score, and other things in their orbit. The author of the article in question is hawking a similar book on the guardian's books platform.