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15 years seems darn short for an oven. The (electric) one I have now is from the late 1960's, and perfectly functional. At church, our (gas) kitchen oven is a

15 years seems darn short for an oven. The (electric) one I have now is from the late 1960's, and perfectly functional. At church, our (gas) kitchen oven is about a century old - and the last service man we had said that it should be good for another century, if we're careful not to let it rust out.

mschuster91 2y ago
phew, at that age I'd really be worried about the seals for the gas oven and about the insulation of the wiring for the electric one.
- bell-cot 2y ago
  [Took a look at my stove] Nope, all the easily-accessed wiring (under the stove top - which lifts like a car hood, for quick clean-up after a pot boils over) is in excellent shape. Insulation colors look a bit faded, but that's it. (Yes, all those wires bend a bit when you either remove a burner, or lift the top. But the design is such that the radius of those bends is extremely large, compared to the diameter of the probably-solid-copper wire.) Guess: "Gas Seals" was a checklist item for that last service man at church. I think we have our gas stove, water heater, and furnace looked at every 7-ish years by someone from the local gas company.
  - IX-103 2y ago
    Sounds like they really don't make them like they used to. Most things have moved to stranded wires due to their lower resistance per weight properties, despite their higher likelihood of breaking during bends.
    - mrWiz 2y ago
      Lower resistance per weight doesn't seem right to me. Spot checking a few values on a chart provided by a wire manufacturer[0] shows that stranded wire has greater resistance per weight. Stranded wire is much more flexible, easier to work with, and handles rebending much better than solid wire and I assume this is why it's more commonly used. [0] https://www.calmont.com/wp-content/uploads/calmont-eng-wire-gauge.pdf https://www.calmont.com/wp-content/uploads/calmont-eng-wire-...
    - newaccount74 2y ago
      I'm not an electrical engineer, but I am pretty sure that every cable that moves should be made from stranded wires. Stranded wires last longer when bent repeatedly. Solid wires are used for fixed installation (eg. inside walls). Any cable with solid conductors must be mounted in such a way that it does not move or bend during use. Electrical resistance is very similar for solid vs stranded conductors.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    Faded colors in something that's usually covered point towards a serious degradation of the insulation. I'd recommend you get an isolation tester device and an instruction on how to use it by a local electrician. That way you can (relatively) easily check your house installation - not just devices but also the home's wiring itself - against danger due to insulations going bad, before someone gets hurt or devices start tripping the GFCI. Speaking of GFCI, I seriously hope you and everyone else reading this thread has all their wiring protected by one. If not, please please please get it retrofitted ASAP, and if you can afford it, retrofit a combination of thermal fuse, GFCI and arc fire detector. Electrical issues are a leading cause for domestic fires. > Guess: "Gas Seals" was a checklist item for that last service man at church. I think we have our gas stove, water heater, and furnace looked at every 7-ish years by someone from the local gas company. Good, then you should be good to go (and it's crazy that the pipes, fittings and interior seals are still intact at that age and not dried out!), although 7 years is quite the stretch. Here in Germany, the norm is once a year for furnaces/water heaters - personally I had an emergency repair to be done as in well below a year the water heater went from "perfect emissions" to "dangerous CO levels". The cause turned out to be cat fur being sucked in and burning up, depositing soot on the burners.
  - sokoloff 2y ago
    Wires subjected to repeated flexure in normal use are very likely to be stranded copper rather than solid copper.
throwaway2037 2y ago
When I lived in Hongkong, my oven failed after less than 10 years. When my landlord came to replace it, he told me that it was common due to the extreme humidity that eventually ruins the circuit boards. I'm still a bit skeptical of that explanation -- but he has probably replaced more "white goods" (refrig, oven, etc.) that I will in a lifetime. Weirdly, my washing machine by Bosch was tough as nails and never had any issues. One would assume that it would be similarly affected by the humidity.
- kevingadd 2y ago
  The washing machine was probably sealed much better against humidity since it would be in proximity to water all the time.
  - throwaway173738 2y ago
    Yeah in my experience the boards in a washing machine are conformally coated which makes it a real treat to replace a relay on the control board.
    - BenjiWiebe 2y ago
      The nice thing about conformal coating is that in general you don't have to do as many repairs versus non conformal coated boards.
- usefulcat 2y ago
  Did you not have air conditioning?
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    Unless you are made of money, you don't run air con in HK while not at home. Daylight hours, I am always out of the house. It regularly gets to 35C in the summer in HK with batshit crazy humidity levels.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
nijave 2y ago
I wonder if this takes into account all the cheap crap installed in apartments/for-rent units. Those seem to last closer to 10 years depending on abuse and quality (usually just getting scraped up, cosmetically damaged). It seems like those Samsung/LG smart appliances are constantly breaking (especially fridges) Really it seems anything with a circuit board is more likely to break (which I suppose is somewhat intuitive given mechanical parts are fairly durable)
- bell-cot 2y ago
  Around here (Ann Arbor, MI) - I hear far more complaints about failed household appliances from friends living in houses than apartments. Possibly that's because the homeowners can't "just call Maintenance" to fix the problem. But I've also heard that many appliance manufacturers have "rental" models - relatively basic, but much more reliable - because landlords buy at scale, and don't tolerate unreliable crap.
throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
Ovens CAN last for 15 years, but should ALL of them? Who gets to decide how long something gets to last for?
- delecti 2y ago
  As (ostensibly) our collective agent, the government seems like a decent candidate.
  - NeoTar 2y ago
    Here is some UK government-adjacent advice on the lifespans of appliances (expected lifespans for products in rental properties): https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/A-Guide-to-product-lifespans.pdf https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com/wp-content/uploads/2024... (Landlords in the UK are obliged to register their tenant's deposit with a scheme upon the start of an tenancy, and raise any objections to the full return within a short period of the tenants move-out (possibly as short as 14 days) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenancy_deposit_scheme_(England_and_Wales) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenancy_deposit_scheme_(Englan...
- dclowd9901 2y ago
  Maybe two things can happen: 1. We create a law that says companies _are_ responsible for the environmentally-conscientious disposal of any good they make. 2. Then we let them decide.

mschuster91 2y ago

phew, at that age I'd really be worried about the seals for the gas oven and about the insulation of the wiring for the electric one.

bell-cot 2y ago
[Took a look at my stove] Nope, all the easily-accessed wiring (under the stove top - which lifts like a car hood, for quick clean-up after a pot boils over) is in excellent shape. Insulation colors look a bit faded, but that's it. (Yes, all those wires bend a bit when you either remove a burner, or lift the top. But the design is such that the radius of those bends is extremely large, compared to the diameter of the probably-solid-copper wire.) Guess: "Gas Seals" was a checklist item for that last service man at church. I think we have our gas stove, water heater, and furnace looked at every 7-ish years by someone from the local gas company.
- IX-103 2y ago
  Sounds like they really don't make them like they used to. Most things have moved to stranded wires due to their lower resistance per weight properties, despite their higher likelihood of breaking during bends.
  - mrWiz 2y ago
    Lower resistance per weight doesn't seem right to me. Spot checking a few values on a chart provided by a wire manufacturer[0] shows that stranded wire has greater resistance per weight. Stranded wire is much more flexible, easier to work with, and handles rebending much better than solid wire and I assume this is why it's more commonly used. [0] https://www.calmont.com/wp-content/uploads/calmont-eng-wire-gauge.pdf https://www.calmont.com/wp-content/uploads/calmont-eng-wire-...
  - newaccount74 2y ago
    I'm not an electrical engineer, but I am pretty sure that every cable that moves should be made from stranded wires. Stranded wires last longer when bent repeatedly. Solid wires are used for fixed installation (eg. inside walls). Any cable with solid conductors must be mounted in such a way that it does not move or bend during use. Electrical resistance is very similar for solid vs stranded conductors.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- mschuster91 2y ago
  Faded colors in something that's usually covered point towards a serious degradation of the insulation. I'd recommend you get an isolation tester device and an instruction on how to use it by a local electrician. That way you can (relatively) easily check your house installation - not just devices but also the home's wiring itself - against danger due to insulations going bad, before someone gets hurt or devices start tripping the GFCI. Speaking of GFCI, I seriously hope you and everyone else reading this thread has all their wiring protected by one. If not, please please please get it retrofitted ASAP, and if you can afford it, retrofit a combination of thermal fuse, GFCI and arc fire detector. Electrical issues are a leading cause for domestic fires. > Guess: "Gas Seals" was a checklist item for that last service man at church. I think we have our gas stove, water heater, and furnace looked at every 7-ish years by someone from the local gas company. Good, then you should be good to go (and it's crazy that the pipes, fittings and interior seals are still intact at that age and not dried out!), although 7 years is quite the stretch. Here in Germany, the norm is once a year for furnaces/water heaters - personally I had an emergency repair to be done as in well below a year the water heater went from "perfect emissions" to "dangerous CO levels". The cause turned out to be cat fur being sucked in and burning up, depositing soot on the burners.
- sokoloff 2y ago
  Wires subjected to repeated flexure in normal use are very likely to be stranded copper rather than solid copper.

throwaway2037 2y ago

When I lived in Hongkong, my oven failed after less than 10 years. When my landlord came to replace it, he told me that it was common due to the extreme humidity that eventually ruins the circuit boards. I'm still a bit skeptical of that explanation -- but he has probably replaced more "white goods" (refrig, oven, etc.) that I will in a lifetime. Weirdly, my washing machine by Bosch was tough as nails and never had any issues. One would assume that it would be similarly affected by the humidity.

kevingadd 2y ago
The washing machine was probably sealed much better against humidity since it would be in proximity to water all the time.
- throwaway173738 2y ago
  Yeah in my experience the boards in a washing machine are conformally coated which makes it a real treat to replace a relay on the control board.
  - BenjiWiebe 2y ago
    The nice thing about conformal coating is that in general you don't have to do as many repairs versus non conformal coated boards.
usefulcat 2y ago
Did you not have air conditioning?
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  Unless you are made of money, you don't run air con in HK while not at home. Daylight hours, I am always out of the house. It regularly gets to 35C in the summer in HK with batshit crazy humidity levels.
marcosdumay 2y ago

nijave 2y ago

I wonder if this takes into account all the cheap crap installed in apartments/for-rent units. Those seem to last closer to 10 years depending on abuse and quality (usually just getting scraped up, cosmetically damaged). It seems like those Samsung/LG smart appliances are constantly breaking (especially fridges) Really it seems anything with a circuit board is more likely to break (which I suppose is somewhat intuitive given mechanical parts are fairly durable)

bell-cot 2y ago
Around here (Ann Arbor, MI) - I hear far more complaints about failed household appliances from friends living in houses than apartments. Possibly that's because the homeowners can't "just call Maintenance" to fix the problem. But I've also heard that many appliance manufacturers have "rental" models - relatively basic, but much more reliable - because landlords buy at scale, and don't tolerate unreliable crap.

throwaway7ahgb 2y ago

Ovens CAN last for 15 years, but should ALL of them? Who gets to decide how long something gets to last for?

delecti 2y ago
As (ostensibly) our collective agent, the government seems like a decent candidate.
- NeoTar 2y ago
  Here is some UK government-adjacent advice on the lifespans of appliances (expected lifespans for products in rental properties): https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/A-Guide-to-product-lifespans.pdf https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com/wp-content/uploads/2024... (Landlords in the UK are obliged to register their tenant's deposit with a scheme upon the start of an tenancy, and raise any objections to the full return within a short period of the tenants move-out (possibly as short as 14 days) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenancy_deposit_scheme_(England_and_Wales) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenancy_deposit_scheme_(Englan...
dclowd9901 2y ago
Maybe two things can happen: 1. We create a law that says companies _are_ responsible for the environmentally-conscientious disposal of any good they make. 2. Then we let them decide.