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We've got a similar thing in New Zealand: the Consumer Guarantees Act. The people who sold the broken thing to you can either fix it, replace it, or refund you

We've got a similar thing in New Zealand: the Consumer Guarantees Act. The people who sold the broken thing to you can either fix it, replace it, or refund you the cost of it. The decision is unfortunately up to them, so they sadly often replace things rather than fixing them. Consumer NZ is usually used as the independent source for expected product lifetimes: https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/appliance-life-expectancy https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/appliance-life-expectan.... Interestingly, they specify 15 years for an oven, which is more than the company in this article claimed electric ovens should last for.

Ylpertnodi 2y ago
Replacing seems fair enough...eliminates buyers remorse.
- promiseofbeans 2y ago
  It's not as good for the environment, though. Some companies like Apple try to make up for this by replacing broken devices, then refurbishing and reselling the formerly broken device.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    Hand-repair of mass-manufactured objects is really expensive, unfortunately. Especially in the West, where you require a bunch of scarce resources like "city land" and "human time".
    - dghlsakjg 2y ago
      Not if the manufacturer plans for it. The first macbook I had, you could replace the battery in less than 10 seconds. You could replace a defective ram stick in 5 minutes if you were going slow. The price of service was cheap enough that the guy who sold me the RAM let me watch over his shoulder as he did it for free.
  - consp 2y ago
    > It's not as good for the environment, though. Depends on other laws, here they have to take it back and recycle it. This also applies to old appliances. I had some empathy for the poor guys who had to take my extremely cheap, completely rusted washing machine away when I bought a new one. While repairing might be better, it's not the worst outcome to replace it.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    My guess: These companies have an internal repair division that will try to sell it as "warranty repaired" later. Or, they sell it at a discount to a company that specialises in oven repairs. They will fix it, then resell it. My guess: Apple's devices are way harder to repair than your average oven or refrigerator.
    - nijave 2y ago
      They did at Kitchen Aid (American company) but only for higher prices goods. They'd refurbish stand mixers but not <$100 USD stuff like stick blenders or hand mixers. Stand mixers were solid metal so I'm guessing a decent portion of the cost was casing/housing At least in the U.S. this stuff tends to be called "manufacturer refurbished"
      - maxerickson 2y ago
        I expect the cost of the cast, cleaned up and painted metal parts is a small fraction vs stuff like assembly and overhead. The raw materials aren't that expensive and they have enough sales to use high volume processes.
lostlogin 2y ago
It’s fantastic. No, I wouldn’t like the extended warranty thanks - I’m covered already.
- verve_rat 2y ago
  If you are willing to offer an extended warranty for X years, then that's pretty good evidence that I should be covered by the CGA for at least that long.
- dclowd9901 2y ago
  In a way, Aus and NZ are taking advantage of other countries’ paltry consumer protection laws. I’m sure manufacturers have not priced in the cost of handling consumers in those countries who use those protections. If they ever do, you can bet they’ll spread the cost to all territories. It’s silly that the US doesn’t set up similar protections. While manufacturers race to the bottom, we (consumers) could race to the top.
bell-cot 2y ago
15 years seems darn short for an oven. The (electric) one I have now is from the late 1960's, and perfectly functional. At church, our (gas) kitchen oven is about a century old - and the last service man we had said that it should be good for another century, if we're careful not to let it rust out.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  phew, at that age I'd really be worried about the seals for the gas oven and about the insulation of the wiring for the electric one.
  - bell-cot 2y ago
    [Took a look at my stove] Nope, all the easily-accessed wiring (under the stove top - which lifts like a car hood, for quick clean-up after a pot boils over) is in excellent shape. Insulation colors look a bit faded, but that's it. (Yes, all those wires bend a bit when you either remove a burner, or lift the top. But the design is such that the radius of those bends is extremely large, compared to the diameter of the probably-solid-copper wire.) Guess: "Gas Seals" was a checklist item for that last service man at church. I think we have our gas stove, water heater, and furnace looked at every 7-ish years by someone from the local gas company.
    - IX-103 2y ago
      Sounds like they really don't make them like they used to. Most things have moved to stranded wires due to their lower resistance per weight properties, despite their higher likelihood of breaking during bends.
      - mrWiz 2y ago
        Lower resistance per weight doesn't seem right to me. Spot checking a few values on a chart provided by a wire manufacturer[0] shows that stranded wire has greater resistance per weight. Stranded wire is much more flexible, easier to work with, and handles rebending much better than solid wire and I assume this is why it's more commonly used. [0] https://www.calmont.com/wp-content/uploads/calmont-eng-wire-gauge.pdf https://www.calmont.com/wp-content/uploads/calmont-eng-wire-...

Ylpertnodi 2y ago

Replacing seems fair enough...eliminates buyers remorse.

promiseofbeans 2y ago
It's not as good for the environment, though. Some companies like Apple try to make up for this by replacing broken devices, then refurbishing and reselling the formerly broken device.
- pjc50 2y ago
  Hand-repair of mass-manufactured objects is really expensive, unfortunately. Especially in the West, where you require a bunch of scarce resources like "city land" and "human time".
  - dghlsakjg 2y ago
    Not if the manufacturer plans for it. The first macbook I had, you could replace the battery in less than 10 seconds. You could replace a defective ram stick in 5 minutes if you were going slow. The price of service was cheap enough that the guy who sold me the RAM let me watch over his shoulder as he did it for free.
- consp 2y ago
  > It's not as good for the environment, though. Depends on other laws, here they have to take it back and recycle it. This also applies to old appliances. I had some empathy for the poor guys who had to take my extremely cheap, completely rusted washing machine away when I bought a new one. While repairing might be better, it's not the worst outcome to replace it.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  My guess: These companies have an internal repair division that will try to sell it as "warranty repaired" later. Or, they sell it at a discount to a company that specialises in oven repairs. They will fix it, then resell it. My guess: Apple's devices are way harder to repair than your average oven or refrigerator.
  - nijave 2y ago
    They did at Kitchen Aid (American company) but only for higher prices goods. They'd refurbish stand mixers but not <$100 USD stuff like stick blenders or hand mixers. Stand mixers were solid metal so I'm guessing a decent portion of the cost was casing/housing At least in the U.S. this stuff tends to be called "manufacturer refurbished"
    - maxerickson 2y ago
      I expect the cost of the cast, cleaned up and painted metal parts is a small fraction vs stuff like assembly and overhead. The raw materials aren't that expensive and they have enough sales to use high volume processes.

lostlogin 2y ago

It’s fantastic. No, I wouldn’t like the extended warranty thanks - I’m covered already.

verve_rat 2y ago
If you are willing to offer an extended warranty for X years, then that's pretty good evidence that I should be covered by the CGA for at least that long.
dclowd9901 2y ago
In a way, Aus and NZ are taking advantage of other countries’ paltry consumer protection laws. I’m sure manufacturers have not priced in the cost of handling consumers in those countries who use those protections. If they ever do, you can bet they’ll spread the cost to all territories. It’s silly that the US doesn’t set up similar protections. While manufacturers race to the bottom, we (consumers) could race to the top.

bell-cot 2y ago

15 years seems darn short for an oven. The (electric) one I have now is from the late 1960's, and perfectly functional. At church, our (gas) kitchen oven is about a century old - and the last service man we had said that it should be good for another century, if we're careful not to let it rust out.

mschuster91 2y ago
phew, at that age I'd really be worried about the seals for the gas oven and about the insulation of the wiring for the electric one.
- bell-cot 2y ago
  [Took a look at my stove] Nope, all the easily-accessed wiring (under the stove top - which lifts like a car hood, for quick clean-up after a pot boils over) is in excellent shape. Insulation colors look a bit faded, but that's it. (Yes, all those wires bend a bit when you either remove a burner, or lift the top. But the design is such that the radius of those bends is extremely large, compared to the diameter of the probably-solid-copper wire.) Guess: "Gas Seals" was a checklist item for that last service man at church. I think we have our gas stove, water heater, and furnace looked at every 7-ish years by someone from the local gas company.
  - IX-103 2y ago
    Sounds like they really don't make them like they used to. Most things have moved to stranded wires due to their lower resistance per weight properties, despite their higher likelihood of breaking during bends.
    - mrWiz 2y ago
      Lower resistance per weight doesn't seem right to me. Spot checking a few values on a chart provided by a wire manufacturer[0] shows that stranded wire has greater resistance per weight. Stranded wire is much more flexible, easier to work with, and handles rebending much better than solid wire and I assume this is why it's more commonly used. [0] https://www.calmont.com/wp-content/uploads/calmont-eng-wire-gauge.pdf https://www.calmont.com/wp-content/uploads/calmont-eng-wire-...