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> Authoritarian societies don't produce great creative work. Is that even true though? Off the top of my head I can think of the art of Soviet propaganda poste
by rhcom2 2y ago
> Authoritarian societies don't produce great creative work.
Is that even true though? Off the top of my head I can think of the art of Soviet propaganda posters, Leni Riefenstahl, Liu Cixin.
- b800h 2y ago"Authoritarian societies make great propaganda" is true. And these aligned AI system would do the same for our own society. It's a type of art.
- usrnm 2y agoThere was a lot of great art produced in the Soviet Union, you cannot just erase human creativity. It was heavily censored, a lot of stuff was forbidden, but the statement is clearly false.
- throwaway48476 2y agoA million paintings of Stalin?
- ziggy_star 2y agoI recommend you watch the children's cartoons. They were made by true artists who snuck quite a bit past clueless censors at personal risk. It had to be quite subtle and takes on a very poignant heartbreaking meaning if you understand the context fully. They were talking to you in the here and now. Listen. "What is Good and What is Bad" (Что Такое Хорошо, и Что Такое Плохо"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y05eK8ADtHc&list=PL822BFF108E805C96&index=10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y05eK8ADtHc&list=PL822BFF108... The Bremen Musicians: https://youtu.be/_1i9oZR6Rns?si=1Q989v4O_GXR4p_K https://youtu.be/_1i9oZR6Rns?si=1Q989v4O_GXR4p_K
- rokkamokka 2y agoI watched it but I don't get your meaning. Perhaps I am as clueless as the censors. Could you enlighten me?
- ziggy_star 2y ago[flagged]
- rokkamokka 2y agoI understand if you don't want to take the time to explain. Have a nice day
- Larrikin 2y agoHalf of their posts have been flagged.
- ziggy_star 2y ago[flagged]
- mdp2021 2y ago> what you find objectionable Speaking as an onlooker passing by: well, your «Evidently not. :) » above was not particularly productive, that is a rebuttal fit for relaxed old friends at the restaurant... :D
- ziggy_star 2y ago[flagged]
- mdp2021 2y ago> I shall endeavor "Appropriate" will be enough, and to the point ;) > keeping schtum Oh that is a vice you will find frequently here - reacting but not expressing, condemning but nor orienting...
- mikener0 2y agoCould you give some examples on the "What is Good and What is Bad" cartoon? I am fairly interested in getting their "message" but I am sadly not getting it.
- flohofwoe 2y agoEastern European science fiction would be a better example. Authors like Stanislaw Lem or the Strugatski brothers had to adapt to sneak critical ideas past censors, and readers had to adapt and read between the lines. (also, categorizing propaganda posters as art, ewwh...)
- lukan 2y ago"(also, categorizing propaganda posters as art, ewwh...)" Heinrich Heine, the german Poet declined working for the socialist party despite symphatising saying something like: I want to remain a poet, you want a propagandist. A poet cannot be a propagandist at the same time.
- Barrin92 2y agoArt for much of human history was devotional, a lot of our greatest artworks today are still religious in nature. The idea that art solely is an act of rebellion rather than say worship, is a pretty modern idea that has produced some rather questionable art by the way. Of course a great artist or poet can be a propagandist. Riefenstahl, Mann, a lot of German nationalists were great artists. One of the most famous works of Western poetry, The Aeneid is literally a propaganda work establishing a mythological foundation for the Roman Empire, Augustus and Caesar.
- lukan 2y ago"The idea that art solely is an act of rebellion rather than say worship" I did not say that and neither did Heine. Most of his works were political. But this is not the same as propaganda, which is more like advertisement. With the tools of lying, deceiving and manipulating. And whether "Triumph des Willens" and alike qualifies as art, I have a different opinion.
- inglor_cz 2y agoThere is a difference between devotional art inspired by religion / mythical events long past (Aeneid etc.), and between the sort of propaganda that the modern totalitarian state demands, which usually centers around some living or freshly dead leader. I'd be open to discussion where the exact limit is. Lenin died in the 1920s, Marx even earlier, but those two were frequently depicted in Communist propaganda of the 1980s. So it is probably "hundreds of years".
- impossiblefork 2y agoIt's important to understand that if we 'align' an LLM, then we are aligning it in a very total way. When we do similar things to humans, the humans still have internal thoughts which we cannot control. But if we add internal thoughts to an LLM, then we will be able to align even them.
- fmajid 2y agoCixin Liu is a despicable human being for his advocacy of repression and worse of the Uyghurs in Cinjiang, and the comparison to Riefenstahl is more apposite than you seem to think.
- gmadsen 2y agoItaly has great architecture from fascism days
- mdp2021 2y agoThat means nothing. You are bending the intended meaning of "creative" as per the poster. Authoritarian powers commit pruning - this is the point.
- djeastm 2y agoThere's something to be said for constraints leading to higher levels of creativity, but it's also possible that those artists could have achieved much more in a free society. We'll never know. But in any case I think they were just speaking generally when they made that absolute statement.