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Feds arrest telehealth execs for overprescribing Adderall
- moose_man 2y agoI saw one of their ads today on Reddit lol.
- 1oooqooq 2y agoalways good to remember this was the business model that enabled paypal, nee x, to exist.
- gnabgib 2y agoDiscussion (43 points, 3 days ago, 22 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40677059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40677059
- bradhe 2y agoIs anyone surprised? Everybody and their mother has a script for Adderall in the tech industry (wider I’m sure). In the city I’m from it’s common industry knowledge which guys to go see for an easy prescription. I said this in another thread, but I predict overdiagnosis of ADHD (as a mechanism to get access to Adderall) will come to lights as one of the biggest scandals of our time.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- sureglymop 2y agoAs someone with pretty strong ADHD (who was extremely hyperactive as a kid) I truly cannot understand why anyone without ADHD would take these stimulants. They must want to torture themselves. Last I checked, ~5% of the population suffers from ADHD.
- kstrauser 2y agoYou bet. Relatively convenient[0] access to online docs is literally a lifesaver to me. The medicine is best described as “tolerable”. It lets me function normally so it’s well worth the minor adverse reactions. Damned if I’d take it if I didn’t need it, though. [0]Mine requires regular video call checkins. As per law, we need to physically visit once a year or so. The original diagnostic visit was as thorough as I’d have expected from a traditional office visit. The main difference is that this doc was easy enough to book an appointment with that I could schedule one while dealing with ADHD. I might not have followed through if I had to wait 6 months and take an afternoon off to visit in person first.
- maximilianroos 2y agoI have the opposite reaction — I'm not surprised at all! The short-term benefits seem really high. And ADHD sits at one end of a normal distribution — lots of people suffer from elements of it, particularly when doing solitary work which requires lots of concentration.
- bun_terminator 2y agoI can't follow. It shoots your energy levels through the roof, makes even the hardest task a breeze and can be the difference between barely getting along and having a rockstar career
- gfourfour 2y agoDiminishing returns on that though, and it comes at a cost to your physical and emotional health.
- radu_floricica 2y agoSounds like they took a good concept and cut way too many corners. Hopefully they didn't ruin it for the rest.
- suzzer99 2y ago> Sounds like they took a good concept and cut way too many corners. If by "cut too many corners" you mean the tech bros exploited loopholes in the system and created an unsustainable gigantic moral hazard for a quick buck — yep, they did it again.
- hehdhdjehehegwv 2y agoThe phrase “unsustainable gigantic moral hazard” applies to the current pharmaceutical and health industry. You know, the one that killed millions with opioids. As far as I am concerned, burn it all down and put the most unhinged cokehead VCs in charge, who cares at this point. Hell, add some crypto AI NFTs in the mix while we’re at it. Literally cannot get worse than it is now.
- therobots927 2y agoThis stood out to me: “But the federal government sets annual production caps on controlled substances—including the amphetamines that make up the active ingredients in prescription stimulants like Adderall. And since the start of the Adderall shortage, the government has declined to raise the quotas, keeping the cap in place even as the demand for the drug has gone through the roof.” Is it just me or is this completely insane? A drug that dramatically improves productivity has a cap on production? I’m not saying it’s not without risks but adults should have the right to make that decision for themselves. I feel like it’s “in” to advocate for freedom of choice when it comes to weed and psychedelics, and I understand that they have lower risk of addiction than adderall. But if you’re going to use the freedom of choice argument for those drugs then you need to apply it to others as well. I’m not saying this telehealth company is blameless (they’re not) but I agree with the article that the government needs to accept responsibility and raise caps. I don’t understand why they wouldn’t. There’s probably a correlation between the cap and GDP.
- lotsofpulp 2y agoI thought basically all medicines and precursors to medicines came from China or India or somewhere outside of US government purview. How would a US maximum on production actually affect supply?
- standardUser 2y agoIt's a controlled substance in the US (and outright illegal in some countries). The DEA sets a cap on how much can be distributed to pharmacies each month, which means the shortage is deliberately caused by DEA policy and can be ended at any time.
- Log_out_ 2y agohttps://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2020/01/08/the-world-war-ii-wonder-drug-that-never-left-japan/ideas/essay/ https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2020/01/08/the-world-war-... Its not working out.. Never did in fact.
- currymj 2y ago
- latentcall 2y agoAdderall to me is a wonder drug, so I had to stop taking it. It defeats morning drowsiness, lack of motivation, hunger. If the powers that be were smart they’d just government issue the stuff to everyone for the massive productivity boost.
- throw__away7391 2y agoI tried it, I found everything you said true _at the beginning_ but after a few hours as it wore off I paid the price for the initial boost and the net effect was near zero, or possibly even negative. I've also been around a ton of people who are taking it constantly and well...they act weird, a bit more frenzied and not necessarily more productive on deep thinking tasks. Not sure if this was the case for me. It's an enjoyable experience, like a recreational drug. I see why people take it, and further I see why people believe it helps them be more productive, but I am highly skeptical of these claimed benefits.
- a-saleh 2y agoHaha, this, but ADHD diagnosis and then my doctor got me Concerta - not as big of a boost, but no longer crashing in the afternoon :)
- not_a_shill 2y ago>well...they act weird, a bit more frenzied and not necessarily more productive on deep thinking tasks. This matches up with some research on that exact subject. "Our findings suggest that “smart drugs” increase motivation, but a reduction in quality of effort, crucial to solve complex problems, annuls this effect." https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.add4165 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.add4165
- throwthrowuknow 2y agoEuphoria and crash is a sign of taking too much at once. This is why you’re supposed to titrate up from a dose that seemingly does nothing until you reach a level and number of doses that work best for your needs without impacting your mood or sleep too much. All the time release numbers are bullshit btw, there’s massive variability between people.
- ChrisArchitect 2y ago[dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40677059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40677059
- advael 2y agoDrug war continues to be an enormous amount of waste and human suffering for no clear public benefit The only "scandal" here is that an adult can't go buy adderall at a grocery store if they need or want it. There is no reason for cops to be involved in this sort of personal decision, and doctors are better suited to an advisory role in it than their current position as de facto legal enforcers
- seper8 2y agoAdderall in a grocery store? Why not add a Xanax isle...
- _8j50 2y agoOk, why not?
- manuelmoreale 2y agoFor obvious reasons related to public health and the general incapacity of human beings to regulate themselves.
- throwthrowuknow 2y agoI assume you’ve ridden in a car or sat in a dark theatre.
- manuelmoreale 2y agoYes and the point you’re trying to make is? That as a society we allow some things that might be risky and not others? Isn’t that obvious? We try to find a balance. Or are you suggesting that since we allow people to drive cars we should also give people easy access to all drugs?
- throwthrowuknow 2y ago
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- mpalmer 2y ago> The government alleges that Done prescribed 40 million pills and generated $100 million in revenue since the start of the pandemic. Ironically, much of this alleged overprescribing took place as the U.S. experienced a severe Adderall shortage—for which government officials still refuse to accept any responsibility. "Ironically"? Leaving out the improper usage of the word, is the author that incurious? Are they just determined to find an anti-government angle?
- gruez 2y agoDid you miss the paragraphs immediately following the one you quoted? >As Reason has documented very extensively, the Food and Drug Administration first declared an Adderall shortage in October 2022. Parents stuck at home with their children struggling to pay attention to school over Zoom, along with relaxed rules on telehealth prescriptions, caused ADHD diagnoses to skyrocket. >But the federal government sets annual production caps on controlled substances—including the amphetamines that make up the active ingredients in prescription stimulants like Adderall. And since the start of the Adderall shortage, the government has declined to raise the quotas, keeping the cap in place even as the demand for the drug has gone through the roof.
- mpalmer 2y agoI read the whole piece. It's interesting that you view this as supporting the point about irony. I guess if you're completely convinced that the caps lack merit, these paragraphs offer some weak support to the usual Reason anti-government bent. Personally I am not convinced one way or the other. Either way, the fact is that taking action against over-prescribing (especially if it's in the millions of pills) IS a response to the shortage. And I say this as someone who has been personally affected by it.
- gruez 2y ago>I guess if you're completely convinced that the caps lack merit, these paragraphs offer some weak support to the usual Reason anti-government bent. What's the "merit" for these caps? If the problem is that it's being over-prescribed, capping production is probably the worser way of fixing that.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]