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I think the simple uniform syntax is the main reason why Lisp never became popular. Code is communication, and communication needs redundancy for error correct

I think the simple uniform syntax is the main reason why Lisp never became popular. Code is communication, and communication needs redundancy for error correction. You can see it in natural languages, and it makes sense to have it in programming languages as well. Using different kinds of syntax for expressing different ideas is an easy way to increase redundancy without making the code more verbose.

gsbcbdjfncnjd 2y ago
Clojure has all those other braces also. They’re just used for data structure literals rather than blocks of code.
jimbokun 2y ago
Lisp did become popular. Then the AI Winter killed it and people avoided it like the plague.
- kazinator 2y ago
  The Lisp machine companies killed Lisp. They were the ones who blew Lisp sky high, but they also created expensive, monstrous workstations running Lisp images requiring tens of megabytes of RAM. Developers used them for prototyping and then had to cob something together to ship to the users, who had hardware like IBM PC machines with less than a meg of RAM. Today's cruft like you ... Python, JS, whatever ... would not stand a chance in the world of the 1980s on that hardware. It's amazing how far they were able to bloat up Lisp while continuing to peddle it commercially. Leaner Lisps running on small systems existed all along, but they would rescue Lisp from the associations brought about by big Lisp.
  - PhilipRoman 2y ago
    >would not stand a chance in the world of the 1980s on that hardware This is what fascinates me about Unix, they created an OS which works with text and processes, as opposed to binary structures and function calls when computers were hundreds of times slower. Even today the overhead of process creation and serialization for pipes is not negligible, how the hell did they manage to do it in 1970s?
xwolfi 2y ago
Or as I tell my colleagues who try to push for more abstract syntax: do you want your brain to do compilation each time your read something, or just have verbose text giving hints at each line ? It s weird people prefer reading implicit text.
- nequo 2y ago
  Isn’t this a big reason we have syntax highlighting? You can use color and styling to give you those hints that are otherwise implicit in text.

gsbcbdjfncnjd 2y ago

Clojure has all those other braces also. They’re just used for data structure literals rather than blocks of code.

jimbokun 2y ago

Lisp did become popular. Then the AI Winter killed it and people avoided it like the plague.

kazinator 2y ago
The Lisp machine companies killed Lisp. They were the ones who blew Lisp sky high, but they also created expensive, monstrous workstations running Lisp images requiring tens of megabytes of RAM. Developers used them for prototyping and then had to cob something together to ship to the users, who had hardware like IBM PC machines with less than a meg of RAM. Today's cruft like you ... Python, JS, whatever ... would not stand a chance in the world of the 1980s on that hardware. It's amazing how far they were able to bloat up Lisp while continuing to peddle it commercially. Leaner Lisps running on small systems existed all along, but they would rescue Lisp from the associations brought about by big Lisp.
- PhilipRoman 2y ago
  >would not stand a chance in the world of the 1980s on that hardware This is what fascinates me about Unix, they created an OS which works with text and processes, as opposed to binary structures and function calls when computers were hundreds of times slower. Even today the overhead of process creation and serialization for pipes is not negligible, how the hell did they manage to do it in 1970s?

xwolfi 2y ago

Or as I tell my colleagues who try to push for more abstract syntax: do you want your brain to do compilation each time your read something, or just have verbose text giving hints at each line ? It s weird people prefer reading implicit text.

nequo 2y ago
Isn’t this a big reason we have syntax highlighting? You can use color and styling to give you those hints that are otherwise implicit in text.