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Ask HN: How can I effectively restart my dev career?

44 points by nathanaldensr 2y ago

Hi, HN. I wanted to share my unique experience with you all and hopefully get some good advice on what I should do next in my career. I was laid off from my most recent position in 2022. I had originally been hired in 2018 as a software dev but quickly transitioned into more of a leadership role, and then finally into digital transformation. I knew the transition was a risk and I was counting on being in that role for several years, or even the rest of my career. Sadly, things didn't work out that way. I haven't written code for a business in several years now, although I do have more recent contributions to open-source, especially my hobby game engine, and I have many years of experience in programming, architecture, DevSecOps, and leadership. After being laid off, I went through some personal life issues that prevented me from working, including taking care of a parent with dementia. Through this unique set of circumstances I am finding it difficult to find work. Even though I have 20+ years of software development experience and am completely self-taught, employers only seem to take a "what have you done lately?" approach during hiring. I've found it difficult to communicate my unique experiences to them in interviews, which I've found to be heavily scripted and impersonal to a fault. Essentially, there doesn't seem to be much empathy in hiring. I feel like I'm being "Pareto principled," so-to-speak. Does someone with my experience really have to grind leetcode and memorize algorithms to prove his capability? Is it realistic for me to expect to be able to work on a software team again after having transitioned away from software development? I'd be interested in management, but in my experience managers and directors either already have experience or transition into those roles from within a company rather than between jobs. Basically, I know I'm fully capable but I've found it difficult to prove that to ornery employers employing what I see as broken hiring practices. I've been involved myself in hiring for several years and I always made an effort to take an empathetic approach with people I interviewed. Sadly, I seem to be one of few who take that approach. I've considered interviewing for more junior positions but I'm concerned that I'll be seen as overqualified. I'm frustrated and, to be quite honest, worried that I've lost my career after this confluence of unfortunate events. What does HN think I should do in my position? There is a lot more to the story than I feel comfortable posting here, so anyone who wants to reach out to me directly can find my contact information in my HN profile. My LinkedIn profile URL is also available in my HN profile.

Eggs-n-Jakey 2y ago
Maybe do some contracting to get your recent xp up
- nathanaldensr 2y ago
  So far, in my experience with interviews, it hasn't mattered much whether the position was full-time or contract. Perhaps I've simply gotten unlucky with the companies I've interviewed with; it's hard for me to say. I'd love to find a short-term contract, especially if it were something like .NET, in which I have nearly 20 years of experience.
nathanaldensr 2y ago
A tangential question to my post: the use of recruiters. Would I benefit from using a recruiter? Would they have additional capabilities to filter employers to only those amenable to my situation?
- ianpurton 2y ago
  A recruiter gets paid a commission if they put you forward and you get the job. So they only put candidates forward if they have a good chance of getting the role. You can use them to get feedback on the current market and how they think you might fit into it. It's worth a try.
- HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
  Many companies don't advertise openings and only go through recruiters, so unless you know someone working there, that's an entire segment of employment that you can't access without using a recruiter. Make sure you have a good LinkedIn profile and it highlights the kind of work you want to do. Recruiters do search through those to find matches for positions that they want to fill.
dustingetz 2y ago
1. resumeraiders.com 2. bear labor market means it can take 50+ applications (easy apply doesn’t count) 3. get a coach, they can help optimize your answers for nontechnical interviews while you work on your technical strategy 4. try crufty industries - government, defense, healthcare

biglyburrito 2y ago

You said that you were laid off in 2022. How recently did you restart your job search? FWIW I'm a software engineer with 25+ yrs of SaaS dev experience (since 1998) & 10+ years of .NET dev experience. It took me four months of job searching to find my current position, which I started a few weeks ago. I was employed during the first two months, when I first suspected I was going to be laid off, & was collecting unemployment during the last two months. I applied to 175-200 jobs, got callbacks from ~40, interviewed with ~10, and received one offer, which I accepted. I started off by grinding LeetCode easy & medium questions, but I stopped after 3 weeks because those types of questions have literally no bearing on the type of work I do daily (e.g. building/supporting APIs, datastore CRUD operations, performance debugging). If a company thinks that they're going to find solid candidates by requiring candidates to solve N Queens under time pressure, then they're not somewhere I want to work anyway, as that's probably just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the problems they have. Basically, it's a numbers game. On the one hand, you should be applying to a lot of jobs, to maximize your odds of getting selected to start the interview process. On the other hand, you don't want to waste your time with companies that are going to waste your time. For me, that meant ignoring job descriptions that wouldn't provide their salary range upfront, before talking to a hiring manager or taking any tech tests; bailing out on any job interviews that use LeetCode/HackerRank in the technical interview stage; bailing out on any job that didn't support an acceptable remote-work arrangement (in my case, I was only looking for 100% WFH). Also, the lead time for most of the jobs I applied to was 3-6 weeks. It's a slog, but playing the stupid LeetCode game is likely to only waste your time, if you're like me & don't live/breathe algorithms like I'm taking CompSci 101 in college again. Also, as other folks have said here, you should be doing everything you can to see if folks in your social network know of any roles for which you might be a good fit. I've landed several jobs that way -- it helps if you can get your resume seen by a hiring manager without having to deal with all of the BS that's typically involved in modern automated resume screening.

dev_0 2y ago
[dead]
coffeecloud 2y ago
How many times would you estimate you stopped the process after actually talking to a recruiter/hiring manager but found out out they wanted to ask you algorithm questions?
nathanaldensr 2y ago
Sorry for the late reply. I have only started recently--within the past month or so. My favored strategy is very similar to yours.

tacostakohashi 2y ago

I'm familiar with this situation myself, so I can empathize. However, I can also see it from the other / hiring side of the equation. I hope you will excuse me for delivering some tough love, as a lot of your narrative around this is not as objective as it could be. * Nobody cares about your "unique experience", "unique set of circumstances", "this confluence of unfortunate events", "heavily scripted and impersonal to a fault" etc... "You are not special. You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We're all part of the same compost heap." The only thing anyone cares about is demonstrable ability to develop software. * Nobody cares about "20+ years of software development". If they did, they'd put it in their job descriptions / requirements. Rather, they care about 3, 5, maybe 7 years of experience. Anything that comes before that is irrelevant. Only in highly specialized fields, or senior management, is extensive experience an asset. * "what have you done lately?" - well, what _have_ you done lately? Do you have a good answer to this question, mentioning only things that you have done, and not any mentions of uniqueness? The reality is that people hiring for software developers see having developed software in the very recent past as indicative of someone who can be productive in the very near future. Explanations of unique circumstances and software development experience several years ago won't cut it. * "Does someone with my experience really have to grind leetcode and memorize algorithms to prove his capability?". Well, yes. Frankly, given your level of experience, brushing up and kicking ass on leetcode should be a walk in the part, and nothing to get indignant about. If entry level / fresh grad folks are expected to be able to do this, you should be able to do it too (and more). "20+ years of software development" doesn't get you a free pass on this, you should be able to do it all day, every day, in your sleep at this point. * "Is it realistic for me to expect to be able to work on a software team again after having transitioned away from software development?" - only if you can demonstrate your ability to develop software here and now, and in the near future, as distinct from years in the past. * "I'd be interested in management" - do you have management experience, which is articulated in your resume, profile, applications, etc? That means performance management, hiring, firing, project management, powerpoint, stakeholders, etc., etc... it's not a given after "20+ years of software development", it's a distinct skillset that you may or may not have developed. * "I know I'm fully capable but I've found it difficult to prove that to ornery employers employing what I see as broken hiring practices" - nobody cares about your opinions on hiring practices. When you start your own company, you'll be able to institute your own, superior hiring practices. Until then, it would be in your best interests to focus on the hiring practices as they exist, rather than how you wish they were. Proving your capability, given the hiring practices that exist, is what it's all about. * "I've been involved myself in hiring for several years and I always made an effort to take an empathetic approach with people I interviewed. Sadly, I seem to be one of few who take that approach." Nobody cares about empathetic approaches. They only care about demonstrated ability to develop software.