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> And yes, documentation and software support are still a bit of a mess, but that’s par for the course with these boards–and the M7 is at least better supported

> And yes, documentation and software support are still a bit of a mess, but that’s par for the course with these boards–and the M7 is at least better supported than most. And that's why Raspberry Pi keeps winning:\

1oooqooq 2y ago
when even the very closed source pi wins, it shows the whole ecosystem is doomed. open source and open hardware lost.
- ahepp 2y ago
  Open source software seems to be winning? I mean, the whole point is that people want SBCs running Linux. I think it's probably fair to say that open source hardware is not winning. I'm not sure I'd say it's "losing", the BeagleBoard exists and seems to do alright for itself if that's what you want.
- sqeaky 2y ago
  When you say "closed source pi", are you referring to the hardware or the software that ships with? My experience with the Raspberry Pi is that it's been a very open platform and that there's tons of options for me and that licensing has never been a problem but also never tried to take a CPU off and Transplant it to a new board or something.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    The graphics stack and firmware aren't open.
- Vt71fcAqt7 2y ago
  Pretty sure the issue is that the RK3588 drivers are not upstreamed into Linux/U-Boot etc. This is the issue with most ARM CPUs in this area like the Broadcom ones RPi is using. Which is why they have Raspberry Pi OS to ship you the drivers. The first good ARM CPU to actually get mainlined will probably see more sales. RK3588 upstreaming project: https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2024/02/21/almost-a-fully-open-source-boot-chain-for-rockchips-rk3588/ https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2024/02/21/almo... Risc-V JH7110[0] upsteam status: https://rvspace.org/en/project/JH7110_Upstream_Plan https://rvspace.org/en/project/JH7110_Upstream_Plan [0] used in https://www.starfivetech.com/en/site/boards https://www.starfivetech.com/en/site/boards
- asddubs 2y ago
  hardware is closed source but in software the pi does open source better. they develop and mainline kernel drivers for their hardware
rcarmo 2y ago
Well, I’ve had extremely good results with Armbian for server stuff, which is why I’ve always tried testing with that. Networking, standard peripherals, etc. all work, so the only real oddities are still GPU and specialized hardware support…
- bayindirh 2y ago
  The problem with Armbian is, while it's neatly packed and made with a lot of care, you lose board-specific capabilities, esp. in Rockchip systems. Using Armbian for OrangePi 5B means losing hardware accelerated video encoding, AI acceleration, etc. But, I bought the board for these features. I'd either use OrangePi's own, short living Debian image with all the features or an Armbian build which I won't be able to update cross-release but will be supported and developed, losing all the differentiating features of the board. There's no winning here. This is why Raspberry Pi is winning.
  - rcarmo 2y ago
    Actually, the new Armbian releases do have GPU support (I mention that in my piece).
    - bayindirh 2y ago
      How about video encoding? I want to use mine as an on demand video encoder for a custom project.
      - einsteinx2 2y ago
        Maybe try reading TFA? There’s a whole section on transcoding.
        bayindirh 2y ago
        The article states: Update: Like I mentioned above, in the weeks since I fleshed out this draft Armbian came out with an Ubuntu Noble version with improved MESA/VPU support, but I haven’t had time to test it yet. I’ll update this post when I do. Which is what I’m asking. The article doesn’t contain information on media transcoding with Armbian, and I asked the question to learn whether there is more info on that. Otherwise, OrangePi’s image already does what I want. Video encoding has a lot of patents attached to it, so the access to that IP block is not always open source due to plethora of reasons. It’s a very non-ideal situation for non-embedded use, hence the question.

1oooqooq 2y ago

when even the very closed source pi wins, it shows the whole ecosystem is doomed. open source and open hardware lost.

ahepp 2y ago
Open source software seems to be winning? I mean, the whole point is that people want SBCs running Linux. I think it's probably fair to say that open source hardware is not winning. I'm not sure I'd say it's "losing", the BeagleBoard exists and seems to do alright for itself if that's what you want.
sqeaky 2y ago
When you say "closed source pi", are you referring to the hardware or the software that ships with? My experience with the Raspberry Pi is that it's been a very open platform and that there's tons of options for me and that licensing has never been a problem but also never tried to take a CPU off and Transplant it to a new board or something.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  The graphics stack and firmware aren't open.
Vt71fcAqt7 2y ago
Pretty sure the issue is that the RK3588 drivers are not upstreamed into Linux/U-Boot etc. This is the issue with most ARM CPUs in this area like the Broadcom ones RPi is using. Which is why they have Raspberry Pi OS to ship you the drivers. The first good ARM CPU to actually get mainlined will probably see more sales. RK3588 upstreaming project: https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2024/02/21/almost-a-fully-open-source-boot-chain-for-rockchips-rk3588/ https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2024/02/21/almo... Risc-V JH7110[0] upsteam status: https://rvspace.org/en/project/JH7110_Upstream_Plan https://rvspace.org/en/project/JH7110_Upstream_Plan [0] used in https://www.starfivetech.com/en/site/boards https://www.starfivetech.com/en/site/boards
asddubs 2y ago
hardware is closed source but in software the pi does open source better. they develop and mainline kernel drivers for their hardware

rcarmo 2y ago

Well, I’ve had extremely good results with Armbian for server stuff, which is why I’ve always tried testing with that. Networking, standard peripherals, etc. all work, so the only real oddities are still GPU and specialized hardware support…

bayindirh 2y ago
The problem with Armbian is, while it's neatly packed and made with a lot of care, you lose board-specific capabilities, esp. in Rockchip systems. Using Armbian for OrangePi 5B means losing hardware accelerated video encoding, AI acceleration, etc. But, I bought the board for these features. I'd either use OrangePi's own, short living Debian image with all the features or an Armbian build which I won't be able to update cross-release but will be supported and developed, losing all the differentiating features of the board. There's no winning here. This is why Raspberry Pi is winning.
- rcarmo 2y ago
  Actually, the new Armbian releases do have GPU support (I mention that in my piece).
  - bayindirh 2y ago
    How about video encoding? I want to use mine as an on demand video encoder for a custom project.
    - einsteinx2 2y ago
      Maybe try reading TFA? There’s a whole section on transcoding.
      - bayindirh 2y ago
        The article states: Update: Like I mentioned above, in the weeks since I fleshed out this draft Armbian came out with an Ubuntu Noble version with improved MESA/VPU support, but I haven’t had time to test it yet. I’ll update this post when I do. Which is what I’m asking. The article doesn’t contain information on media transcoding with Armbian, and I asked the question to learn whether there is more info on that. Otherwise, OrangePi’s image already does what I want. Video encoding has a lot of patents attached to it, so the access to that IP block is not always open source due to plethora of reasons. It’s a very non-ideal situation for non-embedded use, hence the question.