15 ms·

Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

455 points by jorgegalindo 2y ago

jorgegalindo 2y ago
In my latest blog post, I highlight the value of kindness over intelligence in the workplace. I talk about how being kind—through listening, respecting others, showing empathy, and focusing on solutions—can significantly enhance team dynamics and productivity. While being smart is important, I believe that kindness leaves a lasting impact and creates a more positive and effective work environment.
- Spooky23 2y ago
  I’d go further and assert that kindness usually aligns with intelligence. Demonstrating that you’re the smartest guy in the room is an ape-like expression of dominance. The IQ is a distant second.
- ttoinou 2y ago
  Listening and focusing on solutions is being smart though. If you’re only looking for people who are ‘respecting you’ and ‘show empathy’ you might not find competent people with whom you’re gonna produce useful things to trade with the rest of society
- boopmaster 2y ago
  how is focusing on solutions a kind act?
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
  Those actually do sound like smartness. Emotional intelligence is as important as any other.
Xeamek 2y ago
Wouldn't say You have to choose one over another. Smartness without kindness makes you a dick. Kindness without some smartness makes you 'fake', or at least 'valueless'.
- cheschire 2y ago
  You're choosing one over another. You said kindness with some smartness, which implies kindness = 1.0, and smartness = some value between 0.0 and 1.0. The author never implies that one should be kind to the exclusion of being smart.
- Obscurity4340 2y ago
  Would kindness without intelligence (discernment) be more like naïve and easy to take advantage of? Not sure why it makes you fake, there's lots of nice, simple people that are authentic
laiqtzyx 2y ago
That is the ideal but the results depend on the work place or the OSS project. I have started out like that twice and was walked over by other people. Kindness with true reciprocity is very hard to find (I do not mean CoC compliant fake kindness that just keeps the actual power structures in place while everyone is backstabbing.)
- erikerikson 2y ago
  This visits a hard coordination problem. I'd suggest the solution is coming and it will decentralize culture decisions the same way capitalism decentralized spending decisions.
mydriasis 2y ago
Work is hard and stressful. If we're sweet and kind to one-another, we get through it more easily, no matter how smart each of us is individually. Being kind is an investment, and its dividends pay out enormously as your organization grows. Like the article says, it's infectious. I believe that. I believe that if I show kindness, especially to people who are new to the organization, they'll mirror it right back, and try to show it to everyone else, too.
- ttoinou 2y ago
  So you want to be kind only for utilitarian motives, not because it’s a good thing in principle ?
  - bitshiftfaced 2y ago
    What does it mean for a thing to be good in principle?
    - glenstein 2y ago
      I don't understand why they got down voted because this question has a rather obvious answer. Do you motivate a person to behave a specific way because it's instrumentally good for a higher purpose, or because the behavior itself is inherently valuable? That's a perfectly coherent, it makes a real distinction, and it's a legitimate question in this context.
  - alojzmi 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - guy4261 2y ago
    Good that does not sustain itself is quite sad - you can see the efforts going down the drain. Aligning good and sustainable (utilitarian) is worthwhile imho.
  - OmarShehata 2y ago
    fun experiment: let's try to have the most charitable interpretation of this comment ^ My best is: they are saying it is worth taking a step back and making a prioritized list of our values. If we do this, we may place "being kind" over "being productive" I think their warning here is about: what happens in a situation where being kind is NOT productive? Will you just drop it? I think I agree with the broad strokes of this. My rebuttal is: the comment above this was just pointing out, for people who do not value kindness over productivity, that they are not in opposition. That you don't have to pick one or the other. You can have both. We can get mad and turn away from people who do not share our values/priorities. Or we can show them ways that our value systems do not clash and it can be win win
jl6 2y ago
Another way of putting it might be that there’s very little you can do to will yourself to be smarter, but you don’t have to go far out of your way to be kind. (Personally I’m not sure “kindness” is necessarily the right word that encompasses the four qualities listed. Resolutive? Seems like that’s something independent.)
- mjburgess 2y ago
  And, really, it's self-congratulatory. It says only, "be like me, i'm great". And in refusing to translate "De tó sabe, pero de ná entiende" -- how empathetic is the writer really? All together, it comes across a little smug.
bootcat 2y ago
You want to be smart to gather attention, you need to be kind to sustain attention and transform it into meaningful relationships !
- glitchc 2y ago
  It's work. It's not where I make friends. It's far more worthwhile to have meaningful relationships with your neighbours than your colleagues.
ziggy_star 2y ago
Never judge a man until you've walked two full moons in his moccasins. bows Edit: OK well you guys two full moons have definitely not gone by since I've made this comment I'm starting to think y'all ain't as kind as you make yourselves out to be..
- sam_goody 2y ago
  There's a variant of of that phrase: Don't get angry at a man till you've walked a mile in his shoes. By then, you will have had time to calm down. And you will be a mile away. :)
mirekrusin 2y ago
Being too kind can also be negative, I prefer honesty and reality above the rest.
- wesselbindt 2y ago
  I too think that being too x, where x is any adjective, is a bad thing. I much prefer people being just the right amount of y, where y is any adjective.
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  You could say that hiding or refraining from giving critical feedback is not kindness.
  - mirekrusin 2y ago
    If this phrase can mean anything, it doesn't mean anything anymore. Ie. you could also say that egoism is being kind to yourself etc.
    - wtetzner 2y ago
      I interpreted it to mean that lying to someone isn't actually being kind, even if that was the intention.
    - makeitdouble 2y ago
      I see "being kind" as towards others in the context of this discussion. If I feel I'm doing a disservice to the person by not speaking up, but still stay silent because I don't want to be confrontational or harsh, I don't think I'm being kind to the person. I'm only protecting the relation or myself, as I don't have the tools or a path to convey helpful information while making clear I'm having the person's good in mind. I see it as a failure in communication (it usually can be blamed on both parties), and clearly not a character quality.
      - mirekrusin 2y ago
delta_p_delta_x 2y ago
Polar opposite advice frequently posted here is How to Ask Questions the Smart Way: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html No single article on the internet has irritated me as much as this. Being a 'hacker' does not mean someone gets special privileges to be a scumbag.
contrarian1234 2y ago
I think the advice given by the author is a bit simplistic and obvious, but not wrong. I just wouldn't sum it up as being "kind" As someone who works in a "kind" culture (Taiwan) - there is an infuriating flip side If everyone is constantly worried about being kind, it becomes very difficult for people to say "unkind" things. - It's hard for people to give you important critical feedback - People will not give their half baked thoughts (which are the start of good discussions), and only bring stuff up when it's already a problem - People have a complete inability to tell you "Hey when you do that thing A and B, I really don't like that" The end result is that people end up masking a bunch of stuff in an effort to be kind which results in - People having huge blow ups when things boil over - Insane amounts of office gossip and people saying shit behind each other's back (bc they can't say it to your face and resolve it)
- tpmoney 2y ago
  I wonder if the middle ground is when one needs to be "unkind" in words, they should be "kind" in action. I worked on a team that had been moved to a project, in part because that project was behind schedule, haphazard and under-staffed. In our first months we were often (and to my dismay) unkind in words without kind actions to follow through. All of our critiques were correct. All of them were important and needed to be addressed. All of them were real problems. And often the critiques were blunt for the sake of being clear to management. But being right didn't stop that unkindness from stinging the other teams that were there before us. We were resisted and drew quite a bit of (understandable) animosity from those other teams. When we changed tack (partially in response to realizing we were being unkind, partially because we'd finally built up the knowledge we needed to do so) and started accompanying critique with solutions or at a minimum viable demonstrations of the solution, things were received much better. We still said hard things, we still brought in half bakes thoughts. But because we were being kind in bringing more than criticism to the table, it was much more effective.
  - contrarian1234 2y ago
    I honestly it's just a "people skill" that's on the individual level. I just think it's in the devilery and it takes practice. I'm not really sure structural organizational changes can fix it - though maybe they can help a bit In my own experience it's possible to tell people anything as long as you're friendly and strike the right tone. The key is to not get worked up or emotional. Even something extreme like telling someone you don't like working with them - there is a friendly way to tell someone that with a smile on your face Every unkind "truth" can be wrapped in the right packaging. The usual crux is to not get emotional and not get worked up and to lay out the facts, no matter how painful, in a way that shows you're not boiling over On a team level I'm not sure what you can do. Especially with a group of low EQ nerds :). Maybe if one or two people set the examples then it's easier for others to catch on?
ttoinou 2y ago
just a few people are going to miss the smartest in the room, but everyone is going to miss someone kind How is the goal of having people miss you related to achieving business goals ? On the contrary if the smartest is able to produce a lot, people are going to miss him On that topic, I’d rather have people trying to not become offended for little things, seems easier than faking kindness for personal benefits
- __s 2y ago
  In general, the kindest people will be the ones who have the maturity to not be offended
  - xchip 2y ago
    How is that related?
    - __s 2y ago
      Maybe you're right. Deleted my continuing stream of thought. I just woke up so not at my smartest
- madeofpalk 2y ago
  People don't like working with jerks. I don't. It's hard to achieve business goals if no one wants to work with each other.
  - ttoinou 2y ago
    That’s your problem if you are offended too easily. They might not be jerks but you too sensible
    - madeofpalk 2y ago
      Maybe, maybe not. We're talking about hypothetical examples here. As the jerk, you might not think it is your fault, but it is your problem if you are the common thread between other people not wanting to engage with you to meet "business objectives". Generally, I think it's useful to reflect on how your behaviour impacts the work of yourself and others around you. Even if you want to be as utilitarian as possible, work happens better around people who get on better with each other.
xiaodai 2y ago
why try? just be
mycologos 2y ago
No, please, I come to Hacker News to get away from platitudinous, short, vague LinkedIn advice.
- ziggy_star 2y ago
  [flagged]
jasoneckert 2y ago
While I think the points the author makes are sage advice, I think the blog post would have been a lot stronger against criticism if they had added a paragraph similar to the following: "That is not to say you shouldn't come prepared and knowledgeable to meetings you attend. You should provide clear value to each and every meeting you attend from a knowledge perspective. However, the human value of kindness is far more important in the eyes of attendees."
xchip 2y ago
Thanks for schooling us.
throwaway22032 2y ago
Nice guys finish last. There's not being a dick, and then there's being a doormat. You don't want to be close to either of those extremes.
clarkdale 2y ago
"Being nice is the new punk" I would say helping others is incredibly punk. Such as responding to chat messages requesting help in some particular coding problem. So many people will direct them to a support queue, but I love taking time to understand their issue and help them out.
- detourdog 2y ago
  What is interesting about that is the an aspect of original punkers was a desire for respect as individuals. The come as you are was very welcoming. The repulsionist look I saw as an attempt to see only inner beauty in humans. Punk was the reaction of the individual vs. the global machine. The global machine’s surface is nice but the machine is not kind.
- HideousKojima 2y ago
  I direct my coworkers to the documentation that I wrote and that they clearly never read, despite my providing it to them repeatedly in the past and despite my anticipating their exact questions/issues in it.
Xenoamorphous 2y ago
As I usually say, be competent, not competitive. No one likes the uber competitive guy who always tries to stand above the rest at all cost. Which, by the way, screams insecurity.
- ungamedplayer 2y ago
  Whenever I hear the term insecurity used in a derogatory manner the caller often feels that it mitigates understanding more deeply in this area. There are personality types that thrive on competition, they get renewed passion and commitment by having others also better themselves, this is not an ego or alpha complex, instead of the mental models they work in. Or we can just call them insecure and be done with it.
  - Xenoamorphous 2y ago
    Depends on how you define competitiveness. The one I’m referring to, the truly bad kind, is not just about trying to stand out, it also involves trying to put others down, as that helps their goal. Those also tend to be overly sensitive whilst also being insensitive to others. That, to me, screams insecurity (hence the over the top sensitivity). Also they couldn’t care less about others becoming better, actually they’d prefer if they don’t. And yeah, nobody likes those guys.
hnthrowaway0328 2y ago
I'd say just do whatever you think is the best for yourself and take the consequene.
ricardo81 2y ago
Seems like good common sense. Listen, be respectful, keep an open mind. To be fair does it not depend on the audience. There's a balance between the audience and an idea you want to push. Here in YC you can probably go full on with your tech/science knowledge/ideas/theories/whatever and people will judge you purely on your points made, and the people listening are in the same boat. In another context you may be the smartest person in the room by a long way on a topic and have something constructive to say, but no one else in the room is as competent so you cannot go full on with your YC-like comment and have to balance the knowledge/empathy available of the audience. I guess in the end it's about ignorance busting and offering some new insights into a thing that other people can appreciate.
- tpmoney 2y ago
  >Here in YC you can probably go full on with your tech/science knowledge/ideas/theories/whatever and people will judge you purely on your points made, and the people listening are in the same boat. I would disagree with this, even here it is important to be kind. Too often I find the comments on a given thread are full of self importance or worse disdain for the "shortcomings" of the topic in question. Whether or not that disdain might be due to a wealth of knowledge and experience, it brings the general experience of being here down, and in my opinion lowers the quality of the site and the person doing the disdaining. I'm not asking for fawning over every submission like it is a new revelation, but the adage that "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" springs to mind. HN is going to be full of people from differing experiences and walks of life. Tech is too big now for us to all be on the same page, or even within the same general age range. When someone drops a "Show HN" link to some hobby or passion project of theirs, and the comments are full of "experienced" people critiquing the project as if it were supposed to be a google scale web service or even as if it needed to be a viable commercial product – no matter how correct those assessments may be – that's damaging to our shared sense of community. My own philosophy over time has been to only offer critique if it is also accompanied by my own efforts at providing what solutions I can directly (code, documentation whatever). If it bothers me enough to think I should say something, then it should bother me enough to also put in the effort to be/submit the change I want to see. Anything less is at best a piling on of cheap criticism ("cheap" in this case in the sense of "a dime a dozen"), and at worst unkindness for the sake of showing off knowledge. Absent something to contribute beyond criticism / critique, the goal I set for myself is either to engage with the subject and the creator on the assumption of earnest passion for the project, or if I'm disinterested for whatever reason, to not engage at all. I definitely don't always succeed in this endeavor, but over the decades I've grown increasingly tired of the airs of cynicism that permeates the "smart" spaces I've been in. Be kind in all audiences, whether peers, betters or lay people and you will usually avoid being pretentious, confidently incorrect or condescending respectively. And those are 3 things I think we could do with less of in most communities.
spacecadet 2y ago
4 day work work, 6 hour days, better pay, the freedom to spend as much time with the people you want, doing the things you want, without fear of financial ruin or bodily injury. Thats what workers want... not for the work place to replace their family. We do not need to be friends, I do not need to be nice to you. This whining comes from people who place work over all else and need work to be something other than it is. A means to an end. Now, I do not mean passion projects... I mean wage slavery work hell holes... My passion projects and companies are made up of people I trust, have verified their experience. We are nice to each 60% of the time- we understand the other 40% is necessary. We don't take it personally, we brush it off. We are mature professionals, not whiney day care adults.
- therobots927 2y ago
  I’m guessing you work at a startup where you are nice 60% of the time? And I’m also guessing your coworkers actually give a shit about the job vs just trying to game the FAANG compensation algorithm?
  - spacecadet 2y ago
    I run a co-op consulting group.
    - therobots927 2y ago
      Very cool concept! Is it software engineering focused, and do you have to invest in sales or marketing to get clients?
      - spacecadet 2y ago
        Basically, we all have specifics, I focus on RF/Wireless Security projects for government... so you can imagine the sales cycle... sometimes there is overlap and we work together.
        therobots927 2y ago
jackschultz 2y ago
If you're looking for an intro to mindfulness and meditation, the practice of mettā [0] is a truly a great way to start, and frankly, end with as well. Commonly translated as "loving-kindness", applicable to the post, but even more simply as "friendliness" to yourself and others. It's crazy the feelings that can come when you sit, say, and feel the effect of phrases like "may I/you be happy", "may I/you be at ease". This isn't a game where we try to get points for being nice for an afterlife, but somewhat of a compounding way of looking at life and interactions with others. There are many quick start posts, but this is a good one [1] to follow along. Rob Burbea has many talks about mettā, and these [2] are a good intro series. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitr%C4%AB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitr%C4%AB [1] https://www.mettainstitute.org/mettameditation.html https://www.mettainstitute.org/mettameditation.html [2] https://dharmaseed.org/retreats/1084/ https://dharmaseed.org/retreats/1084/
elric 2y ago
Learning not to take everything personally, and not being easily offended are two valuable life skills. I've come to value intent much more than when I was younger. "Did they ignore me because they're mean, or were they simply too distracted to say hello?" I struggle with being "kind" when under pressure. I don't mean to be unkind, but it can seem that way. People who don't know me well sometimes get offended by that. People who know me a little better don't get offended, they know I'll be more approachable when the deed is done (whatever the deed may be). It's ok to be a hedgehog sometimes. Not being kind sometimes is ok. Just don't be mean, that's much more important.
cmsefton 2y ago
Agree with this wholeheartedly. I think where kindness really plays a key role is not passing snap judgements on people and their motivations. It's easy to interpret people's actions or intentions in a negative light, thinking they don't care or are incompetent. I would also like to add that kindness is not just being kind to other people, but to yourself as well. It's easy to beat ourselves up about the mistakes we make, or blaming ourselves for outcomes that sometimes are beyond our control. We can't be perfect. For the most part, I like to live in a world where the default position is that we're mostly well-intentioned, rising apes rather than fallen angels (RIP, Sir Terry Pratchett). This is clearly not always the case, and it's important to accept that, but it shouldn't stop me from still aspiring to be as kind as possible in my own life.
- maroonblazer 2y ago
  100%. I'd also add that it doesn't mean you don't have to make tough decisions that some people won't like. But there's a way to do that that leaves those people knowing that your decision-making process was fair and not capricious. That it's in the best interests of the team, project, organization, company.
user90131313 2y ago
I was so kind at all YC meetings and in other places. That's how got one of the biggest funding and investor attention. That's how it works, right? Did you know that Steve Jobs was so kind so Apple fired him. Also Elon is kind and all founders just kind. etc. Great content
- ant6n 2y ago
  Sarcasm is definitely the road to success! (Oh shit)
orangesite 2y ago
Listening is indeed the hardest thing to do if your organization's metrics places immense pressure on you to be (or at least appear to be) the smartest person in the room. Luckily there are other organizations out there that encourage kindness rather than penalizing it. Only catch is, you probably won't make it through the first interview if you don't start practicing being kind right where you are. Soft skills are hard and take sustained effort to internalize.
growingkittens 2y ago
I am generally considered to be a kind and helpful person. There are many situations where a kindness turns to an expectation, which leads to entitlement: suddenly you are the bad guy if you don't go above and beyond. Being helpful around people who view work as a zero sum game is a recipe for disaster. This article also reframes "things you should do because it's an advantage to you" as kindness.
tommica 2y ago
I was very confused for a moment, as I misread the title as "Do not try to be the smartest tv in the room"
codelikeawolf 2y ago
Ever since that back and forth about "East Coast being kind vs West Coast being nice" thing a while back[1], I think it's important to distinguish the two. Because they are noticeably different (at least to me) and shouldn't be used interchangeably. I want someone to be kind to me in a meeting. I think niceness could seriously inhibit progress. A kind person will tell me that an idea I have won't work, but they'll offer to help me work through it. A nice person will tell me that a bad idea is good, just to avoid conflict. [1] https://www.upworthy.com/nice-vs-kind-are-east-coast-people-better-than-west-coast-rp6 https://www.upworthy.com/nice-vs-kind-are-east-coast-people-...
- delichon 2y ago
  "Tough love" is kind but not nice. There doesn't seem to be a good phrase for the opposite in English but there should be.
  - seneca 2y ago
    The book Radical Candor calls the opposite "ruinous empathy".
    - AgentOrange1234 2y ago
      Definitely a good book. As someone who is very prone to ruinous empathy, the mantra, “it isn’t mean, it’s clear” has been very helpful for giving me the courage to raise issues earlier, when they are not a big deal.
    - delichon 2y ago
      Feeding my dog as much as ... tough love: I think she needs. ruinous empathy: she thinks she needs.
  - hooverd 2y ago
    Unfortunately "though love" as practiced is mostly just an excuse to be an asshole.
langsoul-com 2y ago
The 4 points the author listed is not the same as being kind. Listening, Being respectful, Being empathetic, Being resolutive.
newsclues 2y ago
Rather than try to be the smartest in the room, I try to learn from the smartest person in the room, but when I find I’m the smartest i start looking for a room with smarter people to learn from. Some people can teach others or be the smartest in the room, but I’ve not found those to be as rewarding. I like the challenge of getting to the top more than I do sitting at the peak.
therobots927 2y ago
I definitely agree with this article. I’m at the stage of my career where my primary limiting factor is my inability to tolerate situations where it’s clear co-workers aren’t pulling their weight, don’t have the same philosophy I have about a project, or when they disagree about how to implement a solution. And nothing makes me angrier than when the tech lead or director in charge is clueless, which happens more often than not. Accepting that this is just the way things are is difficult the more emotionally invested you are in your technical work, if you happen to be on a non-technical or semi-technical team. I think this article is helpful for situations where either the pay compensates for bad work culture, or where you’re simply stuck on a team where maybe you are the “smartest” person in the room and it makes you hate your job. At least that’s how I’m interpreting it for my situation.
- farmeroy 2y ago
  I feel like I am struggling with the same thing in my current role and point in my career. On one hand, I feel like I just need to come to terms with the fact that different people have different standards. On the other hand, I just desperately want to work with people who hold themselves to high standards and also get stuff done. In the meantime, I'm finding I'm running out of kindness. I often wonder if it's just me thinking I know more than I do and everything is always this way, that some people just don't care about what they produce and how, or if there teams out there who _do_ care and I just need to find one of those
  - therobots927 2y ago
    Yeah you really just have to learn to accept the situation. If you find an opportunity to jump ship to a place with competent people, take it. But in the meantime I just remind myself that I’m lucky I’m not breaking my back outside to make a living.
  - benji-york 2y ago
    I have found myself feeling similar things. Something that I've done that has helped me is to find ways to nudge people further along the path of "hold[ing] themselves to high standards". That's easier said than done, but I hoped the thought might help you a little.
mehulashah 2y ago
I’m wondering if this is really about life and not just meetings. Meetings are really about getting things done. The kindest act is to not have the meeting if it’s unnecessary. And if it is, outline what you want to get out of it at the start. During the meeting, yes, you should be kind.
baazaa 2y ago
If we tallied up all technical projects in the Western world that failed, how many would be failing due to lack of kindness versus, say, straight-forwards incompetence? Because 100% fall in the latter category in my experience. One of the problems with engineers counter-signalling engineering values (like actual technical competence) is that we live in a world where those values are extremely underrated while every manager, HR-bot etc. are already pushing values like kindness. E.g. if you ever wonder why government doesn't work it's because they're absurdly skewed towards HR-values and opposed to engineering-values.
- hooverd 2y ago
  Government works just fine when you let them do things in house instead of going with "we just need to pay one more private contractor". Also pay more.
- moandcompany 2y ago
  Technically correct is the best kind of correct.
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
    and the kindest best of correct)
- therobots927 2y ago
  I actually agree with you but at the same time, being unkind in those situations is only going to hurt yourself. The reality of many workplaces is that the technical aspect as not the main focus. Appearances and politics run the show at most companies. You can either accept that and work with the system or engage counterproductively with your colleagues in a misguided attempt to force them into technical competence (never gonna happen). Eventually I want to find a place to work full of technically competent people. I thought I would find that in my current company because it was so competitive to get a job here. Let’s just say that was not the case. It think it can be very hard for employees to filter on this without knowing someone on the inside.
- 2y ago
zug_zug 2y ago
Hot take - all these articles (telling employees how to be) are crap for one simple reason: If the management chain wants X, they need to incentivize X. In my experience 9/10 times, then management chain claims they value some set of values abstractly - but what they really mean is "Make me more money, and don't upset the order of things. There is no skill you can have in any quality that will ever make me think you should have my job or better." If the management chain values kindness, let them communicate that request, then prove it by promoting people on that trait rather than nepotism/beauty/years/profitability/whatever.
KolmogorovComp 2y ago
These kind of over-generalist advice are pretty meaningless (especially the title, content being more specific). You do not always want to be perceived (because that's what you're going for) as kind, it is situation specific. You do not want to be kind during negotiation, because that means you're usually missing out on a better deal. You do not want to be kind when dealing with bad behaviour. I've too often seen missing stairs running loose for far too long due to "kindness" from HR, whether it was sincere or rather an expression of cowardliness . What do you want to aim at all time is respectful behaviour, because that is what could undermine your current position in the conversation. People do not listen to jerks.
- trxvaf 2y ago
  A stair is an inanimate object that other people step upon in order to move upwards. Perhaps the human beings in question refused to participate in that game and therefore went "missing"? People using the term "missing stair" are very often sanctimonious, obsessed with power, and just do enough of faking kindness to fly under the radar. And they treat others like inanimate objects.
  - KolmogorovComp 2y ago
    > People using the term "missing stair" are very often sanctimonious, obsessed with power, and just do enough of faking kindness to fly under the radar. And they treat others like inanimate objects. That's a lot of assumption to make from the use of one illustrated idiom, that were by no means intended from my side.
detay 2y ago
I come from a culture where being kind is understood like a weakness. Sadly, this is a double-edged sword on certain situations.
- xandrius 2y ago
  What culture would that be?
neilv 2y ago
I think one of the difficulties is that someone can, say, adopt this "The Kind Framework", and appear aligned on values and awarenesses with someone who appears the same way. Then the second person is blindsided when the first person goes and does something utterly selfish, as soon as the opportunity presents itself. And the first person is baffled that anyone wouldn't expect someone to do that, since they assume anyone would do the selfish thing. And they still think of themselves as a kind person. Where their definition of kind is presenting a certain vibe exterior. I call the first person a "sunny sociopath", after characters we'd often see in TV shows set in California.
steveBK123 2y ago
Rarely does one accomplish great things in life alone, or on the first try. Life is often a game of making sure you have enough at bats to eventually succeed. From a self interested utilitarian view, people will remember you warmly for being kind and be happy to work with you again / give you another shot, far more than they will if you are smart & difficult. Being incompetent and kind isn't my suggestion here. It is simply that if you are as smart and hard working as you think you are, it's not that hard to also be a little kind. If it is so hard for you, you may want to try working on it.
deleted 2y ago
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tomhoward 2y ago
The problem with content like this is it’s not realistically actionable for most people: it really amounts to saying (if you’re not already a temperamentally kind person), “fundamentally change your personality”, without offering actionable steps to accomplish that. It also doesn’t wrestle at all with the complexities and tradeoffs of how we deal with people in different scenarios. Be kind to bullies and assholes? There’s a way to do it, sure, but there’s a lot of technique and nuance involved, and this post doesn’t scratch the surface.
DEADMINCE 2y ago
For most people, ego dominates and comes far ahead of empathy.
pcloadletter_ 2y ago
Some people here are confused. Kindness towards people doesn't preclude you from being assertive. It doesn't preclude you from being a shrewd negotiator. It doesn't preclude you from provide feedback to an employee who needs to improve performance. It doesn't preclude you from laying off an employee.
ransom1538 2y ago
The title was worded wrong, I think engineers (at least me), would make more sense out of: "The world needs more good people, the world does not need more smart people." Engineers often confuse "good people" with "smart people". But they are not related at all. And no, we don't need more smart people optimizing ads. We need more good people helping.
deleted 2y ago
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mrfinn 2y ago
To be kind is one of my specialties. I firmly believe that it's a requirement of any human group so people collaborate at heart. Yes people can be productive anyway without any kindness, but if people really collaborate then they actually multiply their forces and the result is incredibly powerful. If people fight each other that energy is terribly wasted.
sundang 2y ago
[flagged]
ketanmaheshwari 2y ago
I personally think being fair trumps being kind / nice / smart.
getlawgdon 2y ago
More coastal exceptionalism throughout the comments. Wait until you find out how superior Chicago is.
omoikane 2y ago
> "Maestro Liendre: De tó sabe, pero de ná entiende." I don't really know (and don't want) to translate it I think it translates to "knows everything, understands nothing" or "jack of all trades, master of none".
karaterobot 2y ago
I agree that if you want to persuade people and be successful in the business world, being the smartest person in the room isn't the most important quality. Being the loudest and most confident is. Just say your opinions as though they are obvious facts, and if someone disagrees, ignore them and say your thing again with even more confidence. I do not do this—heaven forbid, I'm too kind to do that—but it's the characteristic I see most successful people sharing... if success is defined as organizational prominence and compensation, rather than more trivial heuristics like a history of your claims coinciding with reality.
bjornsing 2y ago
To be honest I’ve come to see these posts as part of the “war”. If you’re not very smart, what’s your best move? Change the rules. Now you can be the most noteworthy person in the room, by being the kindest. With that said, of course you should be kind. But don’t be afraid to be smart too. The world needs smart.
vijucat 2y ago
Nice article. Definitely need more kindness in this achievement society. One small crib, though: > In Spanish, we have a saying, "Maestro Liendre: De tó sabe, pero de ná entiende." I don't really know (and don't want) to translate it because it loses its punch, but it fits perfectly here. Wait, why mention it if I, the reader, cannot understand the saying or how it is even relevant to the article, but leave me with the tease that "but it fits perfectly here". Very puzzling, to say the least. Google Translate tells me "Master Niendre: He knows everything, but he understands nothing". Now I'm even more confused. That is so pithy and unambiguous that I really have to ask: what is it about the Spanish version that "loses its punch" when translated to English?!
- obiefernandez 2y ago
  It hits better with the rhyme
  - vijucat 2y ago
    Makes sense, thanks
- charlietran 2y ago
  from the context in the article, this seems to be the Spanish equivalent of “jack of all trades, master of none”
  - frugalmail 2y ago
    I think it has more of a negative connotation in the context of thinking you are a "master of all trades" despite not.
- TheBozzCL 2y ago
  Google Translate is being too literal. It just means “jack of all trades, master of none”. A more literal translation (with some liberties for the rhyme) would be “handyman nit: knows a bit of everything, but understands jack shit”.
- 2y ago
philodeon 2y ago
To me, this article seems designed to train junior employees to be more exploitable by the tech sector’s psychopathic managerial class.
globular-toast 2y ago
People who try to be the smartest person in the room never are. The only thing I try to do in meetings is be helpful. Whether that's kind or not is not for me to decide.
doubloon 2y ago
"Being nice is the new punk" yes, this is a huge adjustment for me as old Gen X trying to work with Gen Z / Millenials. I feel like Michael Scott sometimes to be honest... raised in an environment where bigoted jokes, brutal insults, shouting, were the norm and expected, adjusting to being around the new generation which was raised on anti-bullying and therapy. I am glad things are changing, the old ways were very dysfunctional and counterproductive. Maybe its just the lead poisoning.
- zackmorris 2y ago
  Glad to see that kindness is finally going viral. I'm Gen X, raised feral like the rest. Movies like The Lost Boys, The Goonies and Explorers feel like biographies. We were vicious to one another before the arrival of political correctness in the early 90s, which received backlash like today's woke. But kindness is always on the right side of history. I agree though about feeling like some kind of crass <expletive> around young people today. I have a hard time staying domesticated as I watch society crumble under the guise of gentrification. I just want to act out so badly sometimes, deface something, watch it all burn like the good old days, SLC Punk style. But the real punk is to be ruthlessly human to one another. There's a certain thrill in sacrificing one's ego to help someone achieve their dreams that just can't be replaced. The biggest baddasses are teachers, nurses, your mom, and everyone knows it.
GenerocUsername 2y ago
Disagree with title.
demondemidi 2y ago
This is another way of saying "behavioral skills matter". Doesn't matter how smart you are, if you're an complete asshole you will find a lot of paths closed off to you. I'm really glad this generation is rejecting the notion that you have to be toxic to succeed. It's such bullshit.
NickC25 2y ago
Disagree with the title. What one should try to avoid being, is a dick. Help people improve. Point out their weaknesses and how they can improve, but get your ducks in a row beforehand - don't be a hypocrite. He who lives in a glass house and all that.... Have empathy, and understand your surroundings, as well as reading the room with context. Be direct with people, don't waste their time, but don't be rude or crass with them. Pleases and thank you's. If someone is falling behind at work, talk to them and understand why - don't just fire them (perhaps something outside of work that is serious is weighing them down - if that is the case tread with caution, and don't be so quick to make a decision that could cost you or your organization socially or fiscally down the road). If you must cut ties with someone, make sure you do so in a direct, honest and respectful way. If YOU were to be fired, how would you like to be treated? There's your baseline. Don't act like an HR drone trying to use flowery language around everyone. Be respectful of everyone as well as their time, and have a baseline level of professionalism that is applied to EVERYONE regardless if they are above or below you on the org chart. Every organization I've worked in, everyone from the janitor to the CEO got a "good morning" and a "yes sir/no sir" on a daily basis. Respect in life is earned, but there's a baseline of where it should be a given. Treat people with dignity.
- pcloadletter_ 2y ago
  Nothing you mentioned here disagrees with the title or the article
farmeroy 2y ago
I really disagree with the quote at the end `just a few people are going to miss the smartest in the room, but everyone is going to miss someone kind.` This is true if the smartest person in the room is a jerk, but I don't find that to often be the case. In every group I've worked in, the smartest, most talented people are often _also_ confident in their abilities to the point where they don't have to _prove_ it to anyone. They help the team succeed. The people I am never sorry to see go are the insecure people with a chip on their shoulder who constantly try to prove that they are the smartest, most talented person in the room. They often are not. The kind or nice person, sure if they are some kind of glue to the team that helps the entire group work together, they don't need to be the highest performers. But incompetent nice people also are a problem.
yobbo 2y ago
The reason people sometimes need to be "unkind" is to prevent some cost from being incurred. (Another conceivable reason is personality disorders, but let's assume normal healthy people.) For normal healthy people, kindness is the default state when it is free. When there are costs, it becomes a luxury only some people can afford.
gyrovagueGeist 2y ago
- "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant"
eleveriven 2y ago
Prioritizing kindness and empathy over showcasing intelligence. Sometimes it is smarter to be kind
wseqyrku 2y ago
That's not gonna work when people conflate team work with competition
anotherevan 2y ago
My two favourite quotes regarding kindness: “Choose being kind over being right, and you’ll be right every time.” — Richard Carlson “When I was young, I used to admire intelligent people; as I grow older, I admire kind people.” — Abraham Joshua Heschel
kennyloginz 2y ago
Forget your “values”, it is always best to be kind. It’s rarely evident the value you produce, because it may take generations. But it is real.

455 points by jorgegalindo 2y ago

In my latest blog post, I highlight the value of kindness over intelligence in the workplace. I talk about how being kind—through listening, respecting others, showing empathy, and focusing on solutions—can significantly enhance team dynamics and productivity. While being smart is important, I believe that kindness leaves a lasting impact and creates a more positive and effective work environment.

Spooky23 2y ago
I’d go further and assert that kindness usually aligns with intelligence. Demonstrating that you’re the smartest guy in the room is an ape-like expression of dominance. The IQ is a distant second.
ttoinou 2y ago
Listening and focusing on solutions is being smart though. If you’re only looking for people who are ‘respecting you’ and ‘show empathy’ you might not find competent people with whom you’re gonna produce useful things to trade with the rest of society
boopmaster 2y ago
how is focusing on solutions a kind act?
HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
Those actually do sound like smartness. Emotional intelligence is as important as any other.

Xeamek 2y ago

Wouldn't say You have to choose one over another. Smartness without kindness makes you a dick. Kindness without some smartness makes you 'fake', or at least 'valueless'.

cheschire 2y ago
You're choosing one over another. You said kindness with some smartness, which implies kindness = 1.0, and smartness = some value between 0.0 and 1.0. The author never implies that one should be kind to the exclusion of being smart.
Obscurity4340 2y ago
Would kindness without intelligence (discernment) be more like naïve and easy to take advantage of? Not sure why it makes you fake, there's lots of nice, simple people that are authentic

laiqtzyx 2y ago

That is the ideal but the results depend on the work place or the OSS project. I have started out like that twice and was walked over by other people. Kindness with true reciprocity is very hard to find (I do not mean CoC compliant fake kindness that just keeps the actual power structures in place while everyone is backstabbing.)

erikerikson 2y ago
This visits a hard coordination problem. I'd suggest the solution is coming and it will decentralize culture decisions the same way capitalism decentralized spending decisions.

mydriasis 2y ago

Work is hard and stressful. If we're sweet and kind to one-another, we get through it more easily, no matter how smart each of us is individually. Being kind is an investment, and its dividends pay out enormously as your organization grows. Like the article says, it's infectious. I believe that. I believe that if I show kindness, especially to people who are new to the organization, they'll mirror it right back, and try to show it to everyone else, too.

ttoinou 2y ago
So you want to be kind only for utilitarian motives, not because it’s a good thing in principle ?
- bitshiftfaced 2y ago
  What does it mean for a thing to be good in principle?
  - glenstein 2y ago
    I don't understand why they got down voted because this question has a rather obvious answer. Do you motivate a person to behave a specific way because it's instrumentally good for a higher purpose, or because the behavior itself is inherently valuable? That's a perfectly coherent, it makes a real distinction, and it's a legitimate question in this context.
- alojzmi 2y ago
  [flagged]
- guy4261 2y ago
  Good that does not sustain itself is quite sad - you can see the efforts going down the drain. Aligning good and sustainable (utilitarian) is worthwhile imho.
- OmarShehata 2y ago
  fun experiment: let's try to have the most charitable interpretation of this comment ^ My best is: they are saying it is worth taking a step back and making a prioritized list of our values. If we do this, we may place "being kind" over "being productive" I think their warning here is about: what happens in a situation where being kind is NOT productive? Will you just drop it? I think I agree with the broad strokes of this. My rebuttal is: the comment above this was just pointing out, for people who do not value kindness over productivity, that they are not in opposition. That you don't have to pick one or the other. You can have both. We can get mad and turn away from people who do not share our values/priorities. Or we can show them ways that our value systems do not clash and it can be win win

jl6 2y ago

Another way of putting it might be that there’s very little you can do to will yourself to be smarter, but you don’t have to go far out of your way to be kind. (Personally I’m not sure “kindness” is necessarily the right word that encompasses the four qualities listed. Resolutive? Seems like that’s something independent.)

mjburgess 2y ago
And, really, it's self-congratulatory. It says only, "be like me, i'm great". And in refusing to translate "De tó sabe, pero de ná entiende" -- how empathetic is the writer really? All together, it comes across a little smug.

bootcat 2y ago

You want to be smart to gather attention, you need to be kind to sustain attention and transform it into meaningful relationships !

glitchc 2y ago
It's work. It's not where I make friends. It's far more worthwhile to have meaningful relationships with your neighbours than your colleagues.

ziggy_star 2y ago

Never judge a man until you've walked two full moons in his moccasins. bows Edit: OK well you guys two full moons have definitely not gone by since I've made this comment I'm starting to think y'all ain't as kind as you make yourselves out to be..

sam_goody 2y ago
There's a variant of of that phrase: Don't get angry at a man till you've walked a mile in his shoes. By then, you will have had time to calm down. And you will be a mile away. :)

mirekrusin 2y ago

Being too kind can also be negative, I prefer honesty and reality above the rest.

wesselbindt 2y ago
I too think that being too x, where x is any adjective, is a bad thing. I much prefer people being just the right amount of y, where y is any adjective.
makeitdouble 2y ago
You could say that hiding or refraining from giving critical feedback is not kindness.
- mirekrusin 2y ago
  If this phrase can mean anything, it doesn't mean anything anymore. Ie. you could also say that egoism is being kind to yourself etc.
  - wtetzner 2y ago
    I interpreted it to mean that lying to someone isn't actually being kind, even if that was the intention.
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    I see "being kind" as towards others in the context of this discussion. If I feel I'm doing a disservice to the person by not speaking up, but still stay silent because I don't want to be confrontational or harsh, I don't think I'm being kind to the person. I'm only protecting the relation or myself, as I don't have the tools or a path to convey helpful information while making clear I'm having the person's good in mind. I see it as a failure in communication (it usually can be blamed on both parties), and clearly not a character quality.
    - mirekrusin 2y ago

delta_p_delta_x 2y ago

Polar opposite advice frequently posted here is How to Ask Questions the Smart Way: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html No single article on the internet has irritated me as much as this. Being a 'hacker' does not mean someone gets special privileges to be a scumbag.

contrarian1234 2y ago

I think the advice given by the author is a bit simplistic and obvious, but not wrong. I just wouldn't sum it up as being "kind" As someone who works in a "kind" culture (Taiwan) - there is an infuriating flip side If everyone is constantly worried about being kind, it becomes very difficult for people to say "unkind" things. - It's hard for people to give you important critical feedback - People will not give their half baked thoughts (which are the start of good discussions), and only bring stuff up when it's already a problem - People have a complete inability to tell you "Hey when you do that thing A and B, I really don't like that" The end result is that people end up masking a bunch of stuff in an effort to be kind which results in - People having huge blow ups when things boil over - Insane amounts of office gossip and people saying shit behind each other's back (bc they can't say it to your face and resolve it)

tpmoney 2y ago
I wonder if the middle ground is when one needs to be "unkind" in words, they should be "kind" in action. I worked on a team that had been moved to a project, in part because that project was behind schedule, haphazard and under-staffed. In our first months we were often (and to my dismay) unkind in words without kind actions to follow through. All of our critiques were correct. All of them were important and needed to be addressed. All of them were real problems. And often the critiques were blunt for the sake of being clear to management. But being right didn't stop that unkindness from stinging the other teams that were there before us. We were resisted and drew quite a bit of (understandable) animosity from those other teams. When we changed tack (partially in response to realizing we were being unkind, partially because we'd finally built up the knowledge we needed to do so) and started accompanying critique with solutions or at a minimum viable demonstrations of the solution, things were received much better. We still said hard things, we still brought in half bakes thoughts. But because we were being kind in bringing more than criticism to the table, it was much more effective.
- contrarian1234 2y ago
  I honestly it's just a "people skill" that's on the individual level. I just think it's in the devilery and it takes practice. I'm not really sure structural organizational changes can fix it - though maybe they can help a bit In my own experience it's possible to tell people anything as long as you're friendly and strike the right tone. The key is to not get worked up or emotional. Even something extreme like telling someone you don't like working with them - there is a friendly way to tell someone that with a smile on your face Every unkind "truth" can be wrapped in the right packaging. The usual crux is to not get emotional and not get worked up and to lay out the facts, no matter how painful, in a way that shows you're not boiling over On a team level I'm not sure what you can do. Especially with a group of low EQ nerds :). Maybe if one or two people set the examples then it's easier for others to catch on?

ttoinou 2y ago

just a few people are going to miss the smartest in the room, but everyone is going to miss someone kind How is the goal of having people miss you related to achieving business goals ? On the contrary if the smartest is able to produce a lot, people are going to miss him On that topic, I’d rather have people trying to not become offended for little things, seems easier than faking kindness for personal benefits

__s 2y ago
In general, the kindest people will be the ones who have the maturity to not be offended
- xchip 2y ago
  How is that related?
  - __s 2y ago
    Maybe you're right. Deleted my continuing stream of thought. I just woke up so not at my smartest
madeofpalk 2y ago
People don't like working with jerks. I don't. It's hard to achieve business goals if no one wants to work with each other.
- ttoinou 2y ago
  That’s your problem if you are offended too easily. They might not be jerks but you too sensible
  - madeofpalk 2y ago
    Maybe, maybe not. We're talking about hypothetical examples here. As the jerk, you might not think it is your fault, but it is your problem if you are the common thread between other people not wanting to engage with you to meet "business objectives". Generally, I think it's useful to reflect on how your behaviour impacts the work of yourself and others around you. Even if you want to be as utilitarian as possible, work happens better around people who get on better with each other.

xiaodai 2y ago

why try? just be

mycologos 2y ago

No, please, I come to Hacker News to get away from platitudinous, short, vague LinkedIn advice.

ziggy_star 2y ago
[flagged]

jasoneckert 2y ago

While I think the points the author makes are sage advice, I think the blog post would have been a lot stronger against criticism if they had added a paragraph similar to the following: "That is not to say you shouldn't come prepared and knowledgeable to meetings you attend. You should provide clear value to each and every meeting you attend from a knowledge perspective. However, the human value of kindness is far more important in the eyes of attendees."

xchip 2y ago

Thanks for schooling us.

throwaway22032 2y ago

Nice guys finish last. There's not being a dick, and then there's being a doormat. You don't want to be close to either of those extremes.

clarkdale 2y ago

"Being nice is the new punk" I would say helping others is incredibly punk. Such as responding to chat messages requesting help in some particular coding problem. So many people will direct them to a support queue, but I love taking time to understand their issue and help them out.

detourdog 2y ago
What is interesting about that is the an aspect of original punkers was a desire for respect as individuals. The come as you are was very welcoming. The repulsionist look I saw as an attempt to see only inner beauty in humans. Punk was the reaction of the individual vs. the global machine. The global machine’s surface is nice but the machine is not kind.
HideousKojima 2y ago
I direct my coworkers to the documentation that I wrote and that they clearly never read, despite my providing it to them repeatedly in the past and despite my anticipating their exact questions/issues in it.

Xenoamorphous 2y ago

As I usually say, be competent, not competitive. No one likes the uber competitive guy who always tries to stand above the rest at all cost. Which, by the way, screams insecurity.

ungamedplayer 2y ago
Whenever I hear the term insecurity used in a derogatory manner the caller often feels that it mitigates understanding more deeply in this area. There are personality types that thrive on competition, they get renewed passion and commitment by having others also better themselves, this is not an ego or alpha complex, instead of the mental models they work in. Or we can just call them insecure and be done with it.
- Xenoamorphous 2y ago
  Depends on how you define competitiveness. The one I’m referring to, the truly bad kind, is not just about trying to stand out, it also involves trying to put others down, as that helps their goal. Those also tend to be overly sensitive whilst also being insensitive to others. That, to me, screams insecurity (hence the over the top sensitivity). Also they couldn’t care less about others becoming better, actually they’d prefer if they don’t. And yeah, nobody likes those guys.

hnthrowaway0328 2y ago

I'd say just do whatever you think is the best for yourself and take the consequene.

ricardo81 2y ago

Seems like good common sense. Listen, be respectful, keep an open mind. To be fair does it not depend on the audience. There's a balance between the audience and an idea you want to push. Here in YC you can probably go full on with your tech/science knowledge/ideas/theories/whatever and people will judge you purely on your points made, and the people listening are in the same boat. In another context you may be the smartest person in the room by a long way on a topic and have something constructive to say, but no one else in the room is as competent so you cannot go full on with your YC-like comment and have to balance the knowledge/empathy available of the audience. I guess in the end it's about ignorance busting and offering some new insights into a thing that other people can appreciate.

tpmoney 2y ago
>Here in YC you can probably go full on with your tech/science knowledge/ideas/theories/whatever and people will judge you purely on your points made, and the people listening are in the same boat. I would disagree with this, even here it is important to be kind. Too often I find the comments on a given thread are full of self importance or worse disdain for the "shortcomings" of the topic in question. Whether or not that disdain might be due to a wealth of knowledge and experience, it brings the general experience of being here down, and in my opinion lowers the quality of the site and the person doing the disdaining. I'm not asking for fawning over every submission like it is a new revelation, but the adage that "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" springs to mind. HN is going to be full of people from differing experiences and walks of life. Tech is too big now for us to all be on the same page, or even within the same general age range. When someone drops a "Show HN" link to some hobby or passion project of theirs, and the comments are full of "experienced" people critiquing the project as if it were supposed to be a google scale web service or even as if it needed to be a viable commercial product – no matter how correct those assessments may be – that's damaging to our shared sense of community. My own philosophy over time has been to only offer critique if it is also accompanied by my own efforts at providing what solutions I can directly (code, documentation whatever). If it bothers me enough to think I should say something, then it should bother me enough to also put in the effort to be/submit the change I want to see. Anything less is at best a piling on of cheap criticism ("cheap" in this case in the sense of "a dime a dozen"), and at worst unkindness for the sake of showing off knowledge. Absent something to contribute beyond criticism / critique, the goal I set for myself is either to engage with the subject and the creator on the assumption of earnest passion for the project, or if I'm disinterested for whatever reason, to not engage at all. I definitely don't always succeed in this endeavor, but over the decades I've grown increasingly tired of the airs of cynicism that permeates the "smart" spaces I've been in. Be kind in all audiences, whether peers, betters or lay people and you will usually avoid being pretentious, confidently incorrect or condescending respectively. And those are 3 things I think we could do with less of in most communities.

spacecadet 2y ago

4 day work work, 6 hour days, better pay, the freedom to spend as much time with the people you want, doing the things you want, without fear of financial ruin or bodily injury. Thats what workers want... not for the work place to replace their family. We do not need to be friends, I do not need to be nice to you. This whining comes from people who place work over all else and need work to be something other than it is. A means to an end. Now, I do not mean passion projects... I mean wage slavery work hell holes... My passion projects and companies are made up of people I trust, have verified their experience. We are nice to each 60% of the time- we understand the other 40% is necessary. We don't take it personally, we brush it off. We are mature professionals, not whiney day care adults.

therobots927 2y ago
I’m guessing you work at a startup where you are nice 60% of the time? And I’m also guessing your coworkers actually give a shit about the job vs just trying to game the FAANG compensation algorithm?
- spacecadet 2y ago
  I run a co-op consulting group.
  - therobots927 2y ago
    Very cool concept! Is it software engineering focused, and do you have to invest in sales or marketing to get clients?
    - spacecadet 2y ago
      Basically, we all have specifics, I focus on RF/Wireless Security projects for government... so you can imagine the sales cycle... sometimes there is overlap and we work together.
      - therobots927 2y ago

jackschultz 2y ago

If you're looking for an intro to mindfulness and meditation, the practice of mettā [0] is a truly a great way to start, and frankly, end with as well. Commonly translated as "loving-kindness", applicable to the post, but even more simply as "friendliness" to yourself and others. It's crazy the feelings that can come when you sit, say, and feel the effect of phrases like "may I/you be happy", "may I/you be at ease". This isn't a game where we try to get points for being nice for an afterlife, but somewhat of a compounding way of looking at life and interactions with others. There are many quick start posts, but this is a good one [1] to follow along. Rob Burbea has many talks about mettā, and these [2] are a good intro series. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitr%C4%AB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitr%C4%AB [1] https://www.mettainstitute.org/mettameditation.html https://www.mettainstitute.org/mettameditation.html [2] https://dharmaseed.org/retreats/1084/ https://dharmaseed.org/retreats/1084/

elric 2y ago

Learning not to take everything personally, and not being easily offended are two valuable life skills. I've come to value intent much more than when I was younger. "Did they ignore me because they're mean, or were they simply too distracted to say hello?" I struggle with being "kind" when under pressure. I don't mean to be unkind, but it can seem that way. People who don't know me well sometimes get offended by that. People who know me a little better don't get offended, they know I'll be more approachable when the deed is done (whatever the deed may be). It's ok to be a hedgehog sometimes. Not being kind sometimes is ok. Just don't be mean, that's much more important.

cmsefton 2y ago

Agree with this wholeheartedly. I think where kindness really plays a key role is not passing snap judgements on people and their motivations. It's easy to interpret people's actions or intentions in a negative light, thinking they don't care or are incompetent. I would also like to add that kindness is not just being kind to other people, but to yourself as well. It's easy to beat ourselves up about the mistakes we make, or blaming ourselves for outcomes that sometimes are beyond our control. We can't be perfect. For the most part, I like to live in a world where the default position is that we're mostly well-intentioned, rising apes rather than fallen angels (RIP, Sir Terry Pratchett). This is clearly not always the case, and it's important to accept that, but it shouldn't stop me from still aspiring to be as kind as possible in my own life.

maroonblazer 2y ago
100%. I'd also add that it doesn't mean you don't have to make tough decisions that some people won't like. But there's a way to do that that leaves those people knowing that your decision-making process was fair and not capricious. That it's in the best interests of the team, project, organization, company.

user90131313 2y ago

I was so kind at all YC meetings and in other places. That's how got one of the biggest funding and investor attention. That's how it works, right? Did you know that Steve Jobs was so kind so Apple fired him. Also Elon is kind and all founders just kind. etc. Great content

ant6n 2y ago
Sarcasm is definitely the road to success! (Oh shit)

orangesite 2y ago

Listening is indeed the hardest thing to do if your organization's metrics places immense pressure on you to be (or at least appear to be) the smartest person in the room. Luckily there are other organizations out there that encourage kindness rather than penalizing it. Only catch is, you probably won't make it through the first interview if you don't start practicing being kind right where you are. Soft skills are hard and take sustained effort to internalize.

growingkittens 2y ago

I am generally considered to be a kind and helpful person. There are many situations where a kindness turns to an expectation, which leads to entitlement: suddenly you are the bad guy if you don't go above and beyond. Being helpful around people who view work as a zero sum game is a recipe for disaster. This article also reframes "things you should do because it's an advantage to you" as kindness.

tommica 2y ago

I was very confused for a moment, as I misread the title as "Do not try to be the smartest tv in the room"

codelikeawolf 2y ago

Ever since that back and forth about "East Coast being kind vs West Coast being nice" thing a while back[1], I think it's important to distinguish the two. Because they are noticeably different (at least to me) and shouldn't be used interchangeably. I want someone to be kind to me in a meeting. I think niceness could seriously inhibit progress. A kind person will tell me that an idea I have won't work, but they'll offer to help me work through it. A nice person will tell me that a bad idea is good, just to avoid conflict. [1] https://www.upworthy.com/nice-vs-kind-are-east-coast-people-better-than-west-coast-rp6 https://www.upworthy.com/nice-vs-kind-are-east-coast-people-...

delichon 2y ago
"Tough love" is kind but not nice. There doesn't seem to be a good phrase for the opposite in English but there should be.
- seneca 2y ago
  The book Radical Candor calls the opposite "ruinous empathy".
  - AgentOrange1234 2y ago
    Definitely a good book. As someone who is very prone to ruinous empathy, the mantra, “it isn’t mean, it’s clear” has been very helpful for giving me the courage to raise issues earlier, when they are not a big deal.
  - delichon 2y ago
    Feeding my dog as much as ... tough love: I think she needs. ruinous empathy: she thinks she needs.
- hooverd 2y ago
  Unfortunately "though love" as practiced is mostly just an excuse to be an asshole.

langsoul-com 2y ago

The 4 points the author listed is not the same as being kind. Listening, Being respectful, Being empathetic, Being resolutive.

newsclues 2y ago

Rather than try to be the smartest in the room, I try to learn from the smartest person in the room, but when I find I’m the smartest i start looking for a room with smarter people to learn from. Some people can teach others or be the smartest in the room, but I’ve not found those to be as rewarding. I like the challenge of getting to the top more than I do sitting at the peak.

therobots927 2y ago

I definitely agree with this article. I’m at the stage of my career where my primary limiting factor is my inability to tolerate situations where it’s clear co-workers aren’t pulling their weight, don’t have the same philosophy I have about a project, or when they disagree about how to implement a solution. And nothing makes me angrier than when the tech lead or director in charge is clueless, which happens more often than not. Accepting that this is just the way things are is difficult the more emotionally invested you are in your technical work, if you happen to be on a non-technical or semi-technical team. I think this article is helpful for situations where either the pay compensates for bad work culture, or where you’re simply stuck on a team where maybe you are the “smartest” person in the room and it makes you hate your job. At least that’s how I’m interpreting it for my situation.

farmeroy 2y ago
I feel like I am struggling with the same thing in my current role and point in my career. On one hand, I feel like I just need to come to terms with the fact that different people have different standards. On the other hand, I just desperately want to work with people who hold themselves to high standards and also get stuff done. In the meantime, I'm finding I'm running out of kindness. I often wonder if it's just me thinking I know more than I do and everything is always this way, that some people just don't care about what they produce and how, or if there teams out there who _do_ care and I just need to find one of those
- therobots927 2y ago
  Yeah you really just have to learn to accept the situation. If you find an opportunity to jump ship to a place with competent people, take it. But in the meantime I just remind myself that I’m lucky I’m not breaking my back outside to make a living.
- benji-york 2y ago
  I have found myself feeling similar things. Something that I've done that has helped me is to find ways to nudge people further along the path of "hold[ing] themselves to high standards". That's easier said than done, but I hoped the thought might help you a little.

mehulashah 2y ago

I’m wondering if this is really about life and not just meetings. Meetings are really about getting things done. The kindest act is to not have the meeting if it’s unnecessary. And if it is, outline what you want to get out of it at the start. During the meeting, yes, you should be kind.

baazaa 2y ago

If we tallied up all technical projects in the Western world that failed, how many would be failing due to lack of kindness versus, say, straight-forwards incompetence? Because 100% fall in the latter category in my experience. One of the problems with engineers counter-signalling engineering values (like actual technical competence) is that we live in a world where those values are extremely underrated while every manager, HR-bot etc. are already pushing values like kindness. E.g. if you ever wonder why government doesn't work it's because they're absurdly skewed towards HR-values and opposed to engineering-values.

hooverd 2y ago
Government works just fine when you let them do things in house instead of going with "we just need to pay one more private contractor". Also pay more.
moandcompany 2y ago
Technically correct is the best kind of correct.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
  and the kindest best of correct)
therobots927 2y ago
I actually agree with you but at the same time, being unkind in those situations is only going to hurt yourself. The reality of many workplaces is that the technical aspect as not the main focus. Appearances and politics run the show at most companies. You can either accept that and work with the system or engage counterproductively with your colleagues in a misguided attempt to force them into technical competence (never gonna happen). Eventually I want to find a place to work full of technically competent people. I thought I would find that in my current company because it was so competitive to get a job here. Let’s just say that was not the case. It think it can be very hard for employees to filter on this without knowing someone on the inside.
2y ago

zug_zug 2y ago

Hot take - all these articles (telling employees how to be) are crap for one simple reason: If the management chain wants X, they need to incentivize X. In my experience 9/10 times, then management chain claims they value some set of values abstractly - but what they really mean is "Make me more money, and don't upset the order of things. There is no skill you can have in any quality that will ever make me think you should have my job or better." If the management chain values kindness, let them communicate that request, then prove it by promoting people on that trait rather than nepotism/beauty/years/profitability/whatever.

KolmogorovComp 2y ago

These kind of over-generalist advice are pretty meaningless (especially the title, content being more specific). You do not always want to be perceived (because that's what you're going for) as kind, it is situation specific. You do not want to be kind during negotiation, because that means you're usually missing out on a better deal. You do not want to be kind when dealing with bad behaviour. I've too often seen missing stairs running loose for far too long due to "kindness" from HR, whether it was sincere or rather an expression of cowardliness . What do you want to aim at all time is respectful behaviour, because that is what could undermine your current position in the conversation. People do not listen to jerks.

trxvaf 2y ago
A stair is an inanimate object that other people step upon in order to move upwards. Perhaps the human beings in question refused to participate in that game and therefore went "missing"? People using the term "missing stair" are very often sanctimonious, obsessed with power, and just do enough of faking kindness to fly under the radar. And they treat others like inanimate objects.
- KolmogorovComp 2y ago
  > People using the term "missing stair" are very often sanctimonious, obsessed with power, and just do enough of faking kindness to fly under the radar. And they treat others like inanimate objects. That's a lot of assumption to make from the use of one illustrated idiom, that were by no means intended from my side.

detay 2y ago

I come from a culture where being kind is understood like a weakness. Sadly, this is a double-edged sword on certain situations.

xandrius 2y ago
What culture would that be?

neilv 2y ago

I think one of the difficulties is that someone can, say, adopt this "The Kind Framework", and appear aligned on values and awarenesses with someone who appears the same way. Then the second person is blindsided when the first person goes and does something utterly selfish, as soon as the opportunity presents itself. And the first person is baffled that anyone wouldn't expect someone to do that, since they assume anyone would do the selfish thing. And they still think of themselves as a kind person. Where their definition of kind is presenting a certain vibe exterior. I call the first person a "sunny sociopath", after characters we'd often see in TV shows set in California.

steveBK123 2y ago

Rarely does one accomplish great things in life alone, or on the first try. Life is often a game of making sure you have enough at bats to eventually succeed. From a self interested utilitarian view, people will remember you warmly for being kind and be happy to work with you again / give you another shot, far more than they will if you are smart & difficult. Being incompetent and kind isn't my suggestion here. It is simply that if you are as smart and hard working as you think you are, it's not that hard to also be a little kind. If it is so hard for you, you may want to try working on it.

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tomhoward 2y ago

The problem with content like this is it’s not realistically actionable for most people: it really amounts to saying (if you’re not already a temperamentally kind person), “fundamentally change your personality”, without offering actionable steps to accomplish that. It also doesn’t wrestle at all with the complexities and tradeoffs of how we deal with people in different scenarios. Be kind to bullies and assholes? There’s a way to do it, sure, but there’s a lot of technique and nuance involved, and this post doesn’t scratch the surface.

DEADMINCE 2y ago

For most people, ego dominates and comes far ahead of empathy.

pcloadletter_ 2y ago

Some people here are confused. Kindness towards people doesn't preclude you from being assertive. It doesn't preclude you from being a shrewd negotiator. It doesn't preclude you from provide feedback to an employee who needs to improve performance. It doesn't preclude you from laying off an employee.

ransom1538 2y ago

The title was worded wrong, I think engineers (at least me), would make more sense out of: "The world needs more good people, the world does not need more smart people." Engineers often confuse "good people" with "smart people". But they are not related at all. And no, we don't need more smart people optimizing ads. We need more good people helping.

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mrfinn 2y ago

To be kind is one of my specialties. I firmly believe that it's a requirement of any human group so people collaborate at heart. Yes people can be productive anyway without any kindness, but if people really collaborate then they actually multiply their forces and the result is incredibly powerful. If people fight each other that energy is terribly wasted.

sundang 2y ago

[flagged]

ketanmaheshwari 2y ago

I personally think being fair trumps being kind / nice / smart.

getlawgdon 2y ago

More coastal exceptionalism throughout the comments. Wait until you find out how superior Chicago is.

omoikane 2y ago

> "Maestro Liendre: De tó sabe, pero de ná entiende." I don't really know (and don't want) to translate it I think it translates to "knows everything, understands nothing" or "jack of all trades, master of none".

karaterobot 2y ago

I agree that if you want to persuade people and be successful in the business world, being the smartest person in the room isn't the most important quality. Being the loudest and most confident is. Just say your opinions as though they are obvious facts, and if someone disagrees, ignore them and say your thing again with even more confidence. I do not do this—heaven forbid, I'm too kind to do that—but it's the characteristic I see most successful people sharing... if success is defined as organizational prominence and compensation, rather than more trivial heuristics like a history of your claims coinciding with reality.

bjornsing 2y ago

To be honest I’ve come to see these posts as part of the “war”. If you’re not very smart, what’s your best move? Change the rules. Now you can be the most noteworthy person in the room, by being the kindest. With that said, of course you should be kind. But don’t be afraid to be smart too. The world needs smart.

vijucat 2y ago

Nice article. Definitely need more kindness in this achievement society. One small crib, though: > In Spanish, we have a saying, "Maestro Liendre: De tó sabe, pero de ná entiende." I don't really know (and don't want) to translate it because it loses its punch, but it fits perfectly here. Wait, why mention it if I, the reader, cannot understand the saying or how it is even relevant to the article, but leave me with the tease that "but it fits perfectly here". Very puzzling, to say the least. Google Translate tells me "Master Niendre: He knows everything, but he understands nothing". Now I'm even more confused. That is so pithy and unambiguous that I really have to ask: what is it about the Spanish version that "loses its punch" when translated to English?!

obiefernandez 2y ago
It hits better with the rhyme
- vijucat 2y ago
  Makes sense, thanks
charlietran 2y ago
from the context in the article, this seems to be the Spanish equivalent of “jack of all trades, master of none”
- frugalmail 2y ago
  I think it has more of a negative connotation in the context of thinking you are a "master of all trades" despite not.
TheBozzCL 2y ago
Google Translate is being too literal. It just means “jack of all trades, master of none”. A more literal translation (with some liberties for the rhyme) would be “handyman nit: knows a bit of everything, but understands jack shit”.
2y ago

philodeon 2y ago

To me, this article seems designed to train junior employees to be more exploitable by the tech sector’s psychopathic managerial class.

globular-toast 2y ago

People who try to be the smartest person in the room never are. The only thing I try to do in meetings is be helpful. Whether that's kind or not is not for me to decide.

doubloon 2y ago

"Being nice is the new punk" yes, this is a huge adjustment for me as old Gen X trying to work with Gen Z / Millenials. I feel like Michael Scott sometimes to be honest... raised in an environment where bigoted jokes, brutal insults, shouting, were the norm and expected, adjusting to being around the new generation which was raised on anti-bullying and therapy. I am glad things are changing, the old ways were very dysfunctional and counterproductive. Maybe its just the lead poisoning.

zackmorris 2y ago
Glad to see that kindness is finally going viral. I'm Gen X, raised feral like the rest. Movies like The Lost Boys, The Goonies and Explorers feel like biographies. We were vicious to one another before the arrival of political correctness in the early 90s, which received backlash like today's woke. But kindness is always on the right side of history. I agree though about feeling like some kind of crass <expletive> around young people today. I have a hard time staying domesticated as I watch society crumble under the guise of gentrification. I just want to act out so badly sometimes, deface something, watch it all burn like the good old days, SLC Punk style. But the real punk is to be ruthlessly human to one another. There's a certain thrill in sacrificing one's ego to help someone achieve their dreams that just can't be replaced. The biggest baddasses are teachers, nurses, your mom, and everyone knows it.

GenerocUsername 2y ago

Disagree with title.

demondemidi 2y ago

This is another way of saying "behavioral skills matter". Doesn't matter how smart you are, if you're an complete asshole you will find a lot of paths closed off to you. I'm really glad this generation is rejecting the notion that you have to be toxic to succeed. It's such bullshit.

NickC25 2y ago

Disagree with the title. What one should try to avoid being, is a dick. Help people improve. Point out their weaknesses and how they can improve, but get your ducks in a row beforehand - don't be a hypocrite. He who lives in a glass house and all that.... Have empathy, and understand your surroundings, as well as reading the room with context. Be direct with people, don't waste their time, but don't be rude or crass with them. Pleases and thank you's. If someone is falling behind at work, talk to them and understand why - don't just fire them (perhaps something outside of work that is serious is weighing them down - if that is the case tread with caution, and don't be so quick to make a decision that could cost you or your organization socially or fiscally down the road). If you must cut ties with someone, make sure you do so in a direct, honest and respectful way. If YOU were to be fired, how would you like to be treated? There's your baseline. Don't act like an HR drone trying to use flowery language around everyone. Be respectful of everyone as well as their time, and have a baseline level of professionalism that is applied to EVERYONE regardless if they are above or below you on the org chart. Every organization I've worked in, everyone from the janitor to the CEO got a "good morning" and a "yes sir/no sir" on a daily basis. Respect in life is earned, but there's a baseline of where it should be a given. Treat people with dignity.

pcloadletter_ 2y ago
Nothing you mentioned here disagrees with the title or the article

farmeroy 2y ago

I really disagree with the quote at the end `just a few people are going to miss the smartest in the room, but everyone is going to miss someone kind.` This is true if the smartest person in the room is a jerk, but I don't find that to often be the case. In every group I've worked in, the smartest, most talented people are often _also_ confident in their abilities to the point where they don't have to _prove_ it to anyone. They help the team succeed. The people I am never sorry to see go are the insecure people with a chip on their shoulder who constantly try to prove that they are the smartest, most talented person in the room. They often are not. The kind or nice person, sure if they are some kind of glue to the team that helps the entire group work together, they don't need to be the highest performers. But incompetent nice people also are a problem.

yobbo 2y ago

The reason people sometimes need to be "unkind" is to prevent some cost from being incurred. (Another conceivable reason is personality disorders, but let's assume normal healthy people.) For normal healthy people, kindness is the default state when it is free. When there are costs, it becomes a luxury only some people can afford.

gyrovagueGeist 2y ago

- "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant"

eleveriven 2y ago

Prioritizing kindness and empathy over showcasing intelligence. Sometimes it is smarter to be kind

wseqyrku 2y ago

That's not gonna work when people conflate team work with competition

anotherevan 2y ago

My two favourite quotes regarding kindness: “Choose being kind over being right, and you’ll be right every time.” — Richard Carlson “When I was young, I used to admire intelligent people; as I grow older, I admire kind people.” — Abraham Joshua Heschel

kennyloginz 2y ago

Forget your “values”, it is always best to be kind. It’s rarely evident the value you produce, because it may take generations. But it is real.