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They did fight it in court. They lost. I'm surprised you're so keen on having big tech companies intentionally ignore court orders and just break the law. Like

by jsnell 2y ago

They did fight it in court. They lost. I'm surprised you're so keen on having big tech companies intentionally ignore court orders and just break the law. Like, it's obviously something none of us should want.

zzo38computer 2y ago
There is other alternative, such as: get rid of their DNS service entirely, or make a petition for changing these laws.
- jsnell 2y ago
  Making a petition to change the laws sounds like a great way of achieving nothing. It will certainly not mean you get to ignore the court orders. Shutting down public DNS in France would be an option (a garbage option that nobody would actually choose in this case and that'd solve nothing, but an option nonetheless). That's not what dmitrygr was asking for though. They want big tech companies to ignore legitimate court orders to protect some scummy football pirate sites.
  - account42 2y ago
    > a garbage option that nobody would actually choose in this case and that'd solve nothing, but an option nonetheless It would be the ethically correct option.
- fastball 2y ago
  What good would getting rid of their DNS service do?
AnthonyMouse 2y ago
Why should we not want this when the law is bad? The government should face pushback from all sides when attempting something odious.
- aniviacat 2y ago
  It's a democratic country. The voters decide if the laws their government passes are bad or not.
  - immibis 2y ago
    There is actually no evidence this is the case, and there is evidence it is the opposite - that the less voters support something, the more likely it is to pass.
    - aniviacat 2y ago
      This claim appears blatantly false. If being unpopular makes a law more likely to pass, then surely the French government tars and feathers all French children every other week. No, they don't, since the voters would prevent that by voting for a different government.
      - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        Obviously the claim exists within the space of bills that somebody actually wants. The premise is that things major industries or politically connected plutocrats want get passed over the interests of the general public for all of the usual reasons, not that things nobody wants get passed without explanation.
      - immibis 2y ago
        That law was never proposed. Only laws that are beneficial to the ruling class get proposed.
        aniviacat 2y ago
        The voters decide who is part of the "ruling class". If the voters choose representatives who only pass laws which benefit themselves, then that is a choice the voters made. If the voters are unsatisfied with their choice, they can change their mind in the next vote. (Read: The status quo is the status quo because most people are prefer the status quo.)
ls612 2y ago
There's a really bad equilibrium where every country (or at least every country big enough to have BigTech workers in their country) figures out they can globally censor the internet by using the assets and people of those companies as leverage. Then we would have Americans having their internet censored by every foreign power except China and Russia, where BigTech have largely left. And it would all be done under the color of local law.
- jsnell 2y ago
  I see nothing in this article suggesting that the court order is for a global block, rather than a regional one. Do you have a source for that?
  - ls612 2y ago
    Does Cloudflare operate different 1.1.1.1s for each country?
    - Volundr 2y ago
      It's not required that they do so in order to implement a France only block. They just geolocate the requesting IP, and give different answers based on that. Same as Netflix or any other provider geo blocking there content, with the same workarounds. But also, in answer to your question, sort of, yes. 1.1.1.1 is any cast so that users will be routed to a server geographically near them. So then 1.1.1.1 a user gets in the US is quite literally a different one than a user in France will get.
      - NilMostChill 2y ago
        The venn diagram of people who are technically savvy enough to be able to alter their dns records and people who can and will use a VPN to work around an ip geolocation block is almost a single circle.
        paledot 2y ago
charlieyu1 2y ago
Is a non-French company obligated to obey a French court order? I can probably name a few countries where most US companies won't enforce the court order from them
- callalex 2y ago
  They have paying customers in France/they operate their business in France for a profit. Just because their headquarters aren’t there doesn’t make it a non-French related business.

by jsnell 2y ago

zzo38computer 2y ago

There is other alternative, such as: get rid of their DNS service entirely, or make a petition for changing these laws.

jsnell 2y ago
Making a petition to change the laws sounds like a great way of achieving nothing. It will certainly not mean you get to ignore the court orders. Shutting down public DNS in France would be an option (a garbage option that nobody would actually choose in this case and that'd solve nothing, but an option nonetheless). That's not what dmitrygr was asking for though. They want big tech companies to ignore legitimate court orders to protect some scummy football pirate sites.
- account42 2y ago
  > a garbage option that nobody would actually choose in this case and that'd solve nothing, but an option nonetheless It would be the ethically correct option.
fastball 2y ago
What good would getting rid of their DNS service do?

AnthonyMouse 2y ago

Why should we not want this when the law is bad? The government should face pushback from all sides when attempting something odious.

aniviacat 2y ago
It's a democratic country. The voters decide if the laws their government passes are bad or not.
- immibis 2y ago
  There is actually no evidence this is the case, and there is evidence it is the opposite - that the less voters support something, the more likely it is to pass.
  - aniviacat 2y ago
    This claim appears blatantly false. If being unpopular makes a law more likely to pass, then surely the French government tars and feathers all French children every other week. No, they don't, since the voters would prevent that by voting for a different government.
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      Obviously the claim exists within the space of bills that somebody actually wants. The premise is that things major industries or politically connected plutocrats want get passed over the interests of the general public for all of the usual reasons, not that things nobody wants get passed without explanation.
    - immibis 2y ago
      That law was never proposed. Only laws that are beneficial to the ruling class get proposed.
      - aniviacat 2y ago
        The voters decide who is part of the "ruling class". If the voters choose representatives who only pass laws which benefit themselves, then that is a choice the voters made. If the voters are unsatisfied with their choice, they can change their mind in the next vote. (Read: The status quo is the status quo because most people are prefer the status quo.)

ls612 2y ago

There's a really bad equilibrium where every country (or at least every country big enough to have BigTech workers in their country) figures out they can globally censor the internet by using the assets and people of those companies as leverage. Then we would have Americans having their internet censored by every foreign power except China and Russia, where BigTech have largely left. And it would all be done under the color of local law.

jsnell 2y ago
I see nothing in this article suggesting that the court order is for a global block, rather than a regional one. Do you have a source for that?
- ls612 2y ago
  Does Cloudflare operate different 1.1.1.1s for each country?
  - Volundr 2y ago
    It's not required that they do so in order to implement a France only block. They just geolocate the requesting IP, and give different answers based on that. Same as Netflix or any other provider geo blocking there content, with the same workarounds. But also, in answer to your question, sort of, yes. 1.1.1.1 is any cast so that users will be routed to a server geographically near them. So then 1.1.1.1 a user gets in the US is quite literally a different one than a user in France will get.
    - NilMostChill 2y ago
      The venn diagram of people who are technically savvy enough to be able to alter their dns records and people who can and will use a VPN to work around an ip geolocation block is almost a single circle.
      - paledot 2y ago

charlieyu1 2y ago

Is a non-French company obligated to obey a French court order? I can probably name a few countries where most US companies won't enforce the court order from them

callalex 2y ago
They have paying customers in France/they operate their business in France for a profit. Just because their headquarters aren’t there doesn’t make it a non-French related business.