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You're glossing over the fact that internal gear hub transmissions easily cost in the hundreds, whereas you can get a derailleur for a tenner or so. I've owned

You're glossing over the fact that internal gear hub transmissions easily cost in the hundreds, whereas you can get a derailleur for a tenner or so. I've owned a number of bikes in my life and all of them have been cheaper than the transmission you suggest everyone should use.

adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
That's kind of true, but it isn't the right comparison. The gear hub isn't just a replacement for the derailleur, but also all your gears, and has a simpler axle. The IGH is still a bit more expensive (~$200 vs $80 for a not completely bottom of the line derailleur based system), but it also requires a lot less maintenance to keep working well.
- 13of40 2y ago
  Getting rid of the external gears also allows you to use a fixed chain guard. Less pants with a hole chewed in one leg = profit.
  - pineaux 2y ago
    You can even use a completely enclosed chain guard. You see them quite often in the Netherlands and will keep your chain out of the rain and dust, this lowers maintenance cost and lifetime significantly. The only problem is, is that this kind of guard typically is quite susceptible to damage if the bike falls or when you hit something. Otherwise it is in many ways superior to a belt. Belts are inherently inefficient compared to chains.
    - alan-hn 2y ago
      Why are belts inherently inefficient compared to a chain?
      - swiftcoder 2y ago
        Belts have slightly higher friction. Although I'd argue that the convenience is worth the loss in efficiency for most non-competitive cyclists.
blacksmith_tb 2y ago
There's a lot of range in internally-geared hubs though, from the crazy end with the $1500 Rohloff 14sp to the $80 Sturmey-Archer 3sp. I commute on a Shimano Alfine 11sp that's ~$200 which isn't exactly "a tenner" but if you add up the price of a derailleur, cassette, chainrings, etc. I don't think it's much different?
- adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
  One of the really weird things with bikes is that entry level bikes tend to be 3x7 which means that you have a lot of extra weight and complexity (a second shifter, shift cable, and front gears) for pretty much no benefit over a 1x9 system.
  - tomek_ycomb 2y ago
    It's much easier to manage tension on 3x7 over 1x9
  - callalex 2y ago
    Well, 21 is like 12 better than 9, you see… (it’s frustrating how well stuff like that works).
  - Moru 2y ago
    The biggest reason we use 3x8 on all our bikes is because the spare parts are cheaper than all other ratios and we can switch around as we like between all bikes and can even keep some spare parts on the shelf for when the local stores are out. The first thing to go on my bike is the deraileur though, they keep a year or so even if taken care of. They can still be used a couple of years but the shifting isn't so exact as I would like it. The sport I do is very gear-shifting intense due to lots of stopping so I guess that eats away ant that poor thing. And I do buy the cheapest ones I can find for around 10-15 euro.
    - schiffern 2y ago
      >The first thing to go on my bike is the deraileur though, they keep a year or so even if taken care of >I do buy the cheapest ones I can find for around 10-15 euro Related?
dghlsakjg 2y ago
An internal transmission hub replaces a hub, cassette, and derailleur and starts at less than $100 for the whole kit. A derailleur can cost $10, but it won’t be nearly as durable. Buying a high quality one is gonna cost in the same neighborhood as $100.
- nradov 2y ago
  A derailleur makes it a lot easier to maintain correct chain tension. Fixing a rear flat by the side of the road is more of a hassle with an internal transmission hub (or a fixie).
  - wyre 2y ago
    I’d argue fixing a flat on a IGH or fixed gear/single speed is easier than a geared bike. Hardest thing about a single speed is needing the proper tool to remove the axle nuts, but after that take the chain off the cog and the wheel will slip right out, just as easy to put back in, just reverse the process. Getting chain tension can be tricky, but tighten the drive side bolt first at the point the chainline has about a centimeter of mesial play and once you tighten the other bolt the chain line should be spot on. Where a geared bike with a derailleur will need you to put the bike in the smallest gear, and untangle the chain from the cassette. Replacing the wheel back in requires the chain to be properly laced around the cassette and can require dexterity. Unfortunately derailleurs are necessary to ensure chain tension when the bicycle frame isn’t designed the allow for manual chain tensioning (vertical dropouts). Also, run tubeless and flats will feel like a thing of the past.
    - lostlogin 2y ago
      Tubeless is a right pain when the hole is large or otherwise unplugged by the sealant. The geyser of glue makes a hell of a mess too. I went back to inner tubes.
      - Angostura 2y ago
        Same
eynsham 2y ago
My bike, with a Sturmey Archer three-speed, cost £160 (from a very reputable shop that services pretty much everything for free or only charges for parts). It is perfectly good for commuting and hobby rides up to at least 50 miles—and I say this as someone rather out of shape.

adgjlsfhk1 2y ago

That's kind of true, but it isn't the right comparison. The gear hub isn't just a replacement for the derailleur, but also all your gears, and has a simpler axle. The IGH is still a bit more expensive (~$200 vs $80 for a not completely bottom of the line derailleur based system), but it also requires a lot less maintenance to keep working well.

13of40 2y ago
Getting rid of the external gears also allows you to use a fixed chain guard. Less pants with a hole chewed in one leg = profit.
- pineaux 2y ago
  You can even use a completely enclosed chain guard. You see them quite often in the Netherlands and will keep your chain out of the rain and dust, this lowers maintenance cost and lifetime significantly. The only problem is, is that this kind of guard typically is quite susceptible to damage if the bike falls or when you hit something. Otherwise it is in many ways superior to a belt. Belts are inherently inefficient compared to chains.
  - alan-hn 2y ago
    Why are belts inherently inefficient compared to a chain?
    - swiftcoder 2y ago
      Belts have slightly higher friction. Although I'd argue that the convenience is worth the loss in efficiency for most non-competitive cyclists.

blacksmith_tb 2y ago

There's a lot of range in internally-geared hubs though, from the crazy end with the $1500 Rohloff 14sp to the $80 Sturmey-Archer 3sp. I commute on a Shimano Alfine 11sp that's ~$200 which isn't exactly "a tenner" but if you add up the price of a derailleur, cassette, chainrings, etc. I don't think it's much different?

adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
One of the really weird things with bikes is that entry level bikes tend to be 3x7 which means that you have a lot of extra weight and complexity (a second shifter, shift cable, and front gears) for pretty much no benefit over a 1x9 system.
- tomek_ycomb 2y ago
  It's much easier to manage tension on 3x7 over 1x9
- callalex 2y ago
  Well, 21 is like 12 better than 9, you see… (it’s frustrating how well stuff like that works).
- Moru 2y ago
  The biggest reason we use 3x8 on all our bikes is because the spare parts are cheaper than all other ratios and we can switch around as we like between all bikes and can even keep some spare parts on the shelf for when the local stores are out. The first thing to go on my bike is the deraileur though, they keep a year or so even if taken care of. They can still be used a couple of years but the shifting isn't so exact as I would like it. The sport I do is very gear-shifting intense due to lots of stopping so I guess that eats away ant that poor thing. And I do buy the cheapest ones I can find for around 10-15 euro.
  - schiffern 2y ago
    >The first thing to go on my bike is the deraileur though, they keep a year or so even if taken care of >I do buy the cheapest ones I can find for around 10-15 euro Related?

dghlsakjg 2y ago

An internal transmission hub replaces a hub, cassette, and derailleur and starts at less than $100 for the whole kit. A derailleur can cost $10, but it won’t be nearly as durable. Buying a high quality one is gonna cost in the same neighborhood as $100.

nradov 2y ago
A derailleur makes it a lot easier to maintain correct chain tension. Fixing a rear flat by the side of the road is more of a hassle with an internal transmission hub (or a fixie).
- wyre 2y ago
  I’d argue fixing a flat on a IGH or fixed gear/single speed is easier than a geared bike. Hardest thing about a single speed is needing the proper tool to remove the axle nuts, but after that take the chain off the cog and the wheel will slip right out, just as easy to put back in, just reverse the process. Getting chain tension can be tricky, but tighten the drive side bolt first at the point the chainline has about a centimeter of mesial play and once you tighten the other bolt the chain line should be spot on. Where a geared bike with a derailleur will need you to put the bike in the smallest gear, and untangle the chain from the cassette. Replacing the wheel back in requires the chain to be properly laced around the cassette and can require dexterity. Unfortunately derailleurs are necessary to ensure chain tension when the bicycle frame isn’t designed the allow for manual chain tensioning (vertical dropouts). Also, run tubeless and flats will feel like a thing of the past.
  - lostlogin 2y ago
    Tubeless is a right pain when the hole is large or otherwise unplugged by the sealant. The geyser of glue makes a hell of a mess too. I went back to inner tubes.
    - Angostura 2y ago
      Same

eynsham 2y ago

My bike, with a Sturmey Archer three-speed, cost £160 (from a very reputable shop that services pretty much everything for free or only charges for parts). It is perfectly good for commuting and hobby rides up to at least 50 miles—and I say this as someone rather out of shape.