8 ms·

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year. But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleurs and bent derailleur hangers.

lostlogin 2y ago
I mostly agree - it’s just that every flat I ever got was the read wheel and it’s was a complete nightmare keeping the chain tension right. When it was working, it was a thing of beauty.
Etheryte 2y ago
You're glossing over the fact that internal gear hub transmissions easily cost in the hundreds, whereas you can get a derailleur for a tenner or so. I've owned a number of bikes in my life and all of them have been cheaper than the transmission you suggest everyone should use.
- adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
  That's kind of true, but it isn't the right comparison. The gear hub isn't just a replacement for the derailleur, but also all your gears, and has a simpler axle. The IGH is still a bit more expensive (~$200 vs $80 for a not completely bottom of the line derailleur based system), but it also requires a lot less maintenance to keep working well.
  - 13of40 2y ago
    Getting rid of the external gears also allows you to use a fixed chain guard. Less pants with a hole chewed in one leg = profit.
    - pineaux 2y ago
      You can even use a completely enclosed chain guard. You see them quite often in the Netherlands and will keep your chain out of the rain and dust, this lowers maintenance cost and lifetime significantly. The only problem is, is that this kind of guard typically is quite susceptible to damage if the bike falls or when you hit something. Otherwise it is in many ways superior to a belt. Belts are inherently inefficient compared to chains.
      - alan-hn 2y ago
        Why are belts inherently inefficient compared to a chain?
        swiftcoder 2y ago
        Belts have slightly higher friction. Although I'd argue that the convenience is worth the loss in efficiency for most non-competitive cyclists.
- blacksmith_tb 2y ago
  There's a lot of range in internally-geared hubs though, from the crazy end with the $1500 Rohloff 14sp to the $80 Sturmey-Archer 3sp. I commute on a Shimano Alfine 11sp that's ~$200 which isn't exactly "a tenner" but if you add up the price of a derailleur, cassette, chainrings, etc. I don't think it's much different?
  - adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
    One of the really weird things with bikes is that entry level bikes tend to be 3x7 which means that you have a lot of extra weight and complexity (a second shifter, shift cable, and front gears) for pretty much no benefit over a 1x9 system.
    - tomek_ycomb 2y ago
      It's much easier to manage tension on 3x7 over 1x9
    - callalex 2y ago
      Well, 21 is like 12 better than 9, you see… (it’s frustrating how well stuff like that works).
    - Moru 2y ago
      The biggest reason we use 3x8 on all our bikes is because the spare parts are cheaper than all other ratios and we can switch around as we like between all bikes and can even keep some spare parts on the shelf for when the local stores are out. The first thing to go on my bike is the deraileur though, they keep a year or so even if taken care of. They can still be used a couple of years but the shifting isn't so exact as I would like it. The sport I do is very gear-shifting intense due to lots of stopping so I guess that eats away ant that poor thing. And I do buy the cheapest ones I can find for around 10-15 euro.
      - schiffern 2y ago
        >The first thing to go on my bike is the deraileur though, they keep a year or so even if taken care of >I do buy the cheapest ones I can find for around 10-15 euro Related?
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  An internal transmission hub replaces a hub, cassette, and derailleur and starts at less than $100 for the whole kit. A derailleur can cost $10, but it won’t be nearly as durable. Buying a high quality one is gonna cost in the same neighborhood as $100.
  - nradov 2y ago
    A derailleur makes it a lot easier to maintain correct chain tension. Fixing a rear flat by the side of the road is more of a hassle with an internal transmission hub (or a fixie).
    - wyre 2y ago
      I’d argue fixing a flat on a IGH or fixed gear/single speed is easier than a geared bike. Hardest thing about a single speed is needing the proper tool to remove the axle nuts, but after that take the chain off the cog and the wheel will slip right out, just as easy to put back in, just reverse the process. Getting chain tension can be tricky, but tighten the drive side bolt first at the point the chainline has about a centimeter of mesial play and once you tighten the other bolt the chain line should be spot on. Where a geared bike with a derailleur will need you to put the bike in the smallest gear, and untangle the chain from the cassette. Replacing the wheel back in requires the chain to be properly laced around the cassette and can require dexterity. Unfortunately derailleurs are necessary to ensure chain tension when the bicycle frame isn’t designed the allow for manual chain tensioning (vertical dropouts). Also, run tubeless and flats will feel like a thing of the past.
      - lostlogin 2y ago
        Tubeless is a right pain when the hole is large or otherwise unplugged by the sealant. The geyser of glue makes a hell of a mess too. I went back to inner tubes.
        Angostura 2y ago
        Same
- eynsham 2y ago
  My bike, with a Sturmey Archer three-speed, cost £160 (from a very reputable shop that services pretty much everything for free or only charges for parts). It is perfectly good for commuting and hobby rides up to at least 50 miles—and I say this as someone rather out of shape.
heresie-dabord 2y ago
If in a dry climate, a derailleur transmission can last a long time and will be cheap to maintain. But once a person starts replacing quality components with like quality, especially in a wet climate, a derailleur transmission can be expensive over 10 years. The set of my experience is { Shimano: [ $various_derailleurs, Nexus 3, Nexus 7, Alfine 11 ] , Rohloff: [14 speed], Other: [rear-hub e-bike] } $various_derailleurs -- fussy to maintain, cheap to replace but costly over 10 years Nexus 3 -- rubbish Nexus 7 -- not bad for modest bicycling Alfine 11 -- zero maintenance, excellent performance, cheaper over 10 years than $various_derailleurs Rohloff -- low maintenance, expensive, built to last, and 14 speeds! But heavy and 10% efficiency loss. e-bike -- reliable, fast and fun, but zero exercise and in the range of a Rohloff for cost In short, I think an e-bike in 2024 is brilliant for single-mode commuting. The technology is reliable and performant... but heavy. An Alfine 11 or Rohloff is bliss for multi-modal commuting (assuming 16" or 20" wheels).
- ivandenysov 2y ago
  From your comparison it may seem that Rohloff is worse than Alfine 11. But it is actually lighter and more efficient. Plus it has wider gear range and equal range jumps between each gear
- ode 2y ago
  Why is the Nexus 3 rubbish?
  - andrewshadura 2y ago
    It isn't. It's good enough for small hills and requires very little maintenance or adjustment. And it's cheap.
  - heresie-dabord 2y ago
    Poor durability. In addition, the gear range is suitable only for short, low-effort rides. I used one for city commuting until it simply failed mechanically. In sum, the Nexus 3 is not in any way better for ownership than a working derailleur transmission. For a rental, there may be some value proposition. The Nexus 7 proved reliable; the Alfine 11 a good value for durability and range of speeds; the Rohloff is brilliant but yes, those 14 speeds are expensive. The choice depends on the rider's needs. I'd rather ride an IGH bicycle for the reliability and value over 10 years of riding. I'm not sure that an indifferent/infrequent bicycle user (the sort who lets things rust and never checks tire pressure) would care. For the purpose of long commutes it's possible to buy an entire e-bike in 2024 for less than the price of a Rohloff hub alone. The Alfine 11 and the Rohloff are brilliant. The Rohloff is a joy to use on all types of terrain. Instant shifts without fuss.
spanktheuser 2y ago
Privately-owned ebikes are enormously popular in Chicago and surrounding suburbs fwiw.
pandaman 2y ago
The maintenance is minimal but repair is much more expensive. Not even talking about the gearbox itself. Consider a damaged rear rim - you'd need to re-lace a new wheel on your expensive hub, which is a lot of labor even for a bike mechanic at $25/h. And repairing the gearbox itself is not something the aforementioned bike mechanic can do at all. Even diagnosing issues with it is an endeavor. On a derailleur system everything is in the open, problems are obvious and parts are cheap and easily replaceable. Also, for the low end the price is prohibitive: there is a firm (Priority) selling relatively cheap, casual belt driven bikes in NYC, which, I figure is quite flat, but the gear ratios on the cheap ones are not good enough for someplace hilly. And for the high end the weight is insane. One does not need to be a "weight weenie" to feel a ~2Kg hub spinning with the wheel.
Aurornis 2y ago
> But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. The cost difference alone is extreme enough to explain why you don’t see internal gear hub bikes everywhere. Even if you did have them on the showroom floor, those casual bike riders wouldn’t be buying them much due to the price. You’re also underestimating the reliability of a modern derailleur system. As long as you’re not buying the absolute cheapest, no-name system, they’re actually quite reliable. The technology has come a long way.
analog31 2y ago
I've got a couple of 1960s Sturmey-Archer AW hubs (on modern rims) in the family fleet, and I like them a lot. They're virtually maintenance free. One was run completely dry and filled with powdery rust when I got it. After cleaning and lubrication, it's given me thousands of trouble-free miles. I consider 3 speeds to be the sweet spot for capturing the advantages of an IGH without an exponential increase in cost. In technical terms, a 3x only needs a single planetary unit, and shifting is simplistic. But it's going to be a tough sell in the US. Derailleur systems have actually improved a lot since I've been riding bikes (50+ years). Indexed shifting really works. Even low-end Shimano systems last a long time with minimal maintenance. There are maybe a dozen bikes among my family members, and derailleur problems are quite rare.
donjoe 2y ago
Bikes are all about efficiency since you don't use any energy but your own. Things change a bit nowadays with e-bikes. When it comes to efficiency, internal gear hubs sadly aren't yet in the range of a rear derailleur. https://fahrradzukunft.de/17/wirkungsgradmessungen-an-nabenschaltungen-2 https://fahrradzukunft.de/17/wirkungsgradmessungen-an-nabens... A dirty rear derailleur of course also reduces the drive train's efficiency by a lot - which can be solved by cleaning the chain every other month. When moving towards belt drives, you need a very stiff frame which can be opened/split in the back to fit the belt. These frames are more expensive to produce which will furthermore increase the overall bike's price. Ideally, we all train our legs to be able to handle a single speed setup ;-)
- pineaux 2y ago
  You don't NEED an opened/split frame for a belt. There are so many ways to solve this problem.
Too 2y ago
Mountain bikers run on "finicky" derailleurs over rocks and through wet mud and sand all day. They are unbelievably reliable. With the modern 1x10 or even 1x12 systems, you get enough range to remove the front shifter, reducing maintenance even more, remove almost all sources of jumping chain and allows fitting chain guard with better coverage. SRAM has a famous video where they lay the bike sideways and jump on the derailleur while shifting, without it bending. Admittedly that model is out of price range for most riders. Ideally you should give the chain a quick rinse and brush of to prevent grime from accumulating. Sure, the internal gears are a bit easier in that regard, because you don't need to get into the cassette. Otherwise from a reliability standpoint they should take equal beating. The cleaning frequency depends a lot on the oil you use also, wet lube will accumulate more grime than dry.
- Doctor_Fegg 2y ago
  > SRAM has a famous video I presume you don’t mean the Bauke Mollema one? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsk3zAZyLaQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsk3zAZyLaQ
- microtonal 2y ago
  Still cleaning regularly is a lot of work (been there) and most people here never clean it, resulting in unreliable shifting and non-smooth cycling. Most people are better served by an internal hub and belt drive. Almost no maintenance (just bring it to a bike shop yearly to get it tuned up again).
  - londons_explore 2y ago
    Internal hubs are common in places where biking is common - ie. Amsterdam. Derailleur's just seem to be far cheaper, I suspect because most of their parts can be made from stamped steel, whereas most parts of an internal gearbox must be CNC machined and face hardened.
    - dsego 2y ago
      > Internal hubs are common in places where biking is common - ie. Amsterdam. And by sheer coincidence, the popularity of bicycles and internal hubs coincides with having extremely flat terrain.
Angostura 2y ago
I’ve been commuting weekdays on a bike with ‘finicky derailleurs for 30 years. Probably had problems with them twice.
- macrolime 2y ago
  I've had complete opposite experiences, there is issues with the derailleurs constantly. Switching to internal gears and a belt instead of a chain has made commuting a much better experience and may in some cases actually cheaper in the long run when you factor in the saved maintenance time and costs.
watwut 2y ago
Practically, all the "all weather" bike commuters I know do a yearly maintenance at best and that is it. It is not that finnicky, actually, unless you aim for maximum performance or do hardcore mountain biking (those do maintenance after each ride). It is dirty after rain, but they still just leave it at that.
dsego 2y ago
I think the finicky part is the indexing system, the old friction shifters were way more reliable. On an indexing shifter any knock on the rear mech can bend the hanger and mess up the shifting and it can't be adjusted without straightening the hanger. A good indicator of a bent derailleur hanger is that adjusting works on one part of the cassette but than causes issues on the other end. On a friction shifter it doesn't matter, you can always make adjustments by hand. Internal hubs are heavy, drag like mud and usually require twist shifters.
notnmeyer 2y ago
derailleurs are easy to adjust once you understand how. 99% of the time you only need the high and low limit adjustments. decent bikes derailleur hangers. they’re simple and they work reliably enough. why do we need something more complicated? building a touring bike for remote areas? reliability wins, internal transmission and belt drive sounds smart. otherwise, your money is better spent on nicer brakes, lighter weight wheels, nice hubs, etc.
kjkjadksj 2y ago
You know what bike lasts forever? Friction shift. I first noticed this in college. There would be new bikes and then really old bikes that had friction shifters. Hardly any maybe 10-20 year old bikes interestingly. All you really need to do for friction shift bikes are tires brakes and lube. You don’t really need to fuss with adjusting the derailer since theres no indexing you just move it with your lever until its in gear, wherever that may be. Plus you can get an entire friction shift bike in working order for like $50 sometimes.
scheme271 2y ago
An internal hub and a gates belt really reduces the amount of maintenance needed to keep your bike running well. The belt avoids most of the chain issues and doesn't need a properly lubed chain to function and moving the gears inside reduces the contamination that cogs get exposed to.

lostlogin 2y ago

I mostly agree - it’s just that every flat I ever got was the read wheel and it’s was a complete nightmare keeping the chain tension right. When it was working, it was a thing of beauty.

Etheryte 2y ago

You're glossing over the fact that internal gear hub transmissions easily cost in the hundreds, whereas you can get a derailleur for a tenner or so. I've owned a number of bikes in my life and all of them have been cheaper than the transmission you suggest everyone should use.

adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
That's kind of true, but it isn't the right comparison. The gear hub isn't just a replacement for the derailleur, but also all your gears, and has a simpler axle. The IGH is still a bit more expensive (~$200 vs $80 for a not completely bottom of the line derailleur based system), but it also requires a lot less maintenance to keep working well.
- 13of40 2y ago
  Getting rid of the external gears also allows you to use a fixed chain guard. Less pants with a hole chewed in one leg = profit.
  - pineaux 2y ago
    You can even use a completely enclosed chain guard. You see them quite often in the Netherlands and will keep your chain out of the rain and dust, this lowers maintenance cost and lifetime significantly. The only problem is, is that this kind of guard typically is quite susceptible to damage if the bike falls or when you hit something. Otherwise it is in many ways superior to a belt. Belts are inherently inefficient compared to chains.
    - alan-hn 2y ago
      Why are belts inherently inefficient compared to a chain?
      - swiftcoder 2y ago
        Belts have slightly higher friction. Although I'd argue that the convenience is worth the loss in efficiency for most non-competitive cyclists.
blacksmith_tb 2y ago
There's a lot of range in internally-geared hubs though, from the crazy end with the $1500 Rohloff 14sp to the $80 Sturmey-Archer 3sp. I commute on a Shimano Alfine 11sp that's ~$200 which isn't exactly "a tenner" but if you add up the price of a derailleur, cassette, chainrings, etc. I don't think it's much different?
- adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
  One of the really weird things with bikes is that entry level bikes tend to be 3x7 which means that you have a lot of extra weight and complexity (a second shifter, shift cable, and front gears) for pretty much no benefit over a 1x9 system.
  - tomek_ycomb 2y ago
    It's much easier to manage tension on 3x7 over 1x9
  - callalex 2y ago
    Well, 21 is like 12 better than 9, you see… (it’s frustrating how well stuff like that works).
  - Moru 2y ago
    The biggest reason we use 3x8 on all our bikes is because the spare parts are cheaper than all other ratios and we can switch around as we like between all bikes and can even keep some spare parts on the shelf for when the local stores are out. The first thing to go on my bike is the deraileur though, they keep a year or so even if taken care of. They can still be used a couple of years but the shifting isn't so exact as I would like it. The sport I do is very gear-shifting intense due to lots of stopping so I guess that eats away ant that poor thing. And I do buy the cheapest ones I can find for around 10-15 euro.
    - schiffern 2y ago
      >The first thing to go on my bike is the deraileur though, they keep a year or so even if taken care of >I do buy the cheapest ones I can find for around 10-15 euro Related?
dghlsakjg 2y ago
An internal transmission hub replaces a hub, cassette, and derailleur and starts at less than $100 for the whole kit. A derailleur can cost $10, but it won’t be nearly as durable. Buying a high quality one is gonna cost in the same neighborhood as $100.
- nradov 2y ago
  A derailleur makes it a lot easier to maintain correct chain tension. Fixing a rear flat by the side of the road is more of a hassle with an internal transmission hub (or a fixie).
  - wyre 2y ago
    I’d argue fixing a flat on a IGH or fixed gear/single speed is easier than a geared bike. Hardest thing about a single speed is needing the proper tool to remove the axle nuts, but after that take the chain off the cog and the wheel will slip right out, just as easy to put back in, just reverse the process. Getting chain tension can be tricky, but tighten the drive side bolt first at the point the chainline has about a centimeter of mesial play and once you tighten the other bolt the chain line should be spot on. Where a geared bike with a derailleur will need you to put the bike in the smallest gear, and untangle the chain from the cassette. Replacing the wheel back in requires the chain to be properly laced around the cassette and can require dexterity. Unfortunately derailleurs are necessary to ensure chain tension when the bicycle frame isn’t designed the allow for manual chain tensioning (vertical dropouts). Also, run tubeless and flats will feel like a thing of the past.
    - lostlogin 2y ago
      Tubeless is a right pain when the hole is large or otherwise unplugged by the sealant. The geyser of glue makes a hell of a mess too. I went back to inner tubes.
      - Angostura 2y ago
        Same
eynsham 2y ago
My bike, with a Sturmey Archer three-speed, cost £160 (from a very reputable shop that services pretty much everything for free or only charges for parts). It is perfectly good for commuting and hobby rides up to at least 50 miles—and I say this as someone rather out of shape.

heresie-dabord 2y ago

If in a dry climate, a derailleur transmission can last a long time and will be cheap to maintain. But once a person starts replacing quality components with like quality, especially in a wet climate, a derailleur transmission can be expensive over 10 years. The set of my experience is { Shimano: [ $various_derailleurs, Nexus 3, Nexus 7, Alfine 11 ] , Rohloff: [14 speed], Other: [rear-hub e-bike] } $various_derailleurs -- fussy to maintain, cheap to replace but costly over 10 years Nexus 3 -- rubbish Nexus 7 -- not bad for modest bicycling Alfine 11 -- zero maintenance, excellent performance, cheaper over 10 years than $various_derailleurs Rohloff -- low maintenance, expensive, built to last, and 14 speeds! But heavy and 10% efficiency loss. e-bike -- reliable, fast and fun, but zero exercise and in the range of a Rohloff for cost In short, I think an e-bike in 2024 is brilliant for single-mode commuting. The technology is reliable and performant... but heavy. An Alfine 11 or Rohloff is bliss for multi-modal commuting (assuming 16" or 20" wheels).

ivandenysov 2y ago
From your comparison it may seem that Rohloff is worse than Alfine 11. But it is actually lighter and more efficient. Plus it has wider gear range and equal range jumps between each gear
ode 2y ago
Why is the Nexus 3 rubbish?
- andrewshadura 2y ago
  It isn't. It's good enough for small hills and requires very little maintenance or adjustment. And it's cheap.
- heresie-dabord 2y ago
  Poor durability. In addition, the gear range is suitable only for short, low-effort rides. I used one for city commuting until it simply failed mechanically. In sum, the Nexus 3 is not in any way better for ownership than a working derailleur transmission. For a rental, there may be some value proposition. The Nexus 7 proved reliable; the Alfine 11 a good value for durability and range of speeds; the Rohloff is brilliant but yes, those 14 speeds are expensive. The choice depends on the rider's needs. I'd rather ride an IGH bicycle for the reliability and value over 10 years of riding. I'm not sure that an indifferent/infrequent bicycle user (the sort who lets things rust and never checks tire pressure) would care. For the purpose of long commutes it's possible to buy an entire e-bike in 2024 for less than the price of a Rohloff hub alone. The Alfine 11 and the Rohloff are brilliant. The Rohloff is a joy to use on all types of terrain. Instant shifts without fuss.

spanktheuser 2y ago

Privately-owned ebikes are enormously popular in Chicago and surrounding suburbs fwiw.

pandaman 2y ago

The maintenance is minimal but repair is much more expensive. Not even talking about the gearbox itself. Consider a damaged rear rim - you'd need to re-lace a new wheel on your expensive hub, which is a lot of labor even for a bike mechanic at $25/h. And repairing the gearbox itself is not something the aforementioned bike mechanic can do at all. Even diagnosing issues with it is an endeavor. On a derailleur system everything is in the open, problems are obvious and parts are cheap and easily replaceable. Also, for the low end the price is prohibitive: there is a firm (Priority) selling relatively cheap, casual belt driven bikes in NYC, which, I figure is quite flat, but the gear ratios on the cheap ones are not good enough for someplace hilly. And for the high end the weight is insane. One does not need to be a "weight weenie" to feel a ~2Kg hub spinning with the wheel.

Aurornis 2y ago

> But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. The cost difference alone is extreme enough to explain why you don’t see internal gear hub bikes everywhere. Even if you did have them on the showroom floor, those casual bike riders wouldn’t be buying them much due to the price. You’re also underestimating the reliability of a modern derailleur system. As long as you’re not buying the absolute cheapest, no-name system, they’re actually quite reliable. The technology has come a long way.

analog31 2y ago

I've got a couple of 1960s Sturmey-Archer AW hubs (on modern rims) in the family fleet, and I like them a lot. They're virtually maintenance free. One was run completely dry and filled with powdery rust when I got it. After cleaning and lubrication, it's given me thousands of trouble-free miles. I consider 3 speeds to be the sweet spot for capturing the advantages of an IGH without an exponential increase in cost. In technical terms, a 3x only needs a single planetary unit, and shifting is simplistic. But it's going to be a tough sell in the US. Derailleur systems have actually improved a lot since I've been riding bikes (50+ years). Indexed shifting really works. Even low-end Shimano systems last a long time with minimal maintenance. There are maybe a dozen bikes among my family members, and derailleur problems are quite rare.

donjoe 2y ago

Bikes are all about efficiency since you don't use any energy but your own. Things change a bit nowadays with e-bikes. When it comes to efficiency, internal gear hubs sadly aren't yet in the range of a rear derailleur. https://fahrradzukunft.de/17/wirkungsgradmessungen-an-nabenschaltungen-2 https://fahrradzukunft.de/17/wirkungsgradmessungen-an-nabens... A dirty rear derailleur of course also reduces the drive train's efficiency by a lot - which can be solved by cleaning the chain every other month. When moving towards belt drives, you need a very stiff frame which can be opened/split in the back to fit the belt. These frames are more expensive to produce which will furthermore increase the overall bike's price. Ideally, we all train our legs to be able to handle a single speed setup ;-)

pineaux 2y ago
You don't NEED an opened/split frame for a belt. There are so many ways to solve this problem.

Too 2y ago

Mountain bikers run on "finicky" derailleurs over rocks and through wet mud and sand all day. They are unbelievably reliable. With the modern 1x10 or even 1x12 systems, you get enough range to remove the front shifter, reducing maintenance even more, remove almost all sources of jumping chain and allows fitting chain guard with better coverage. SRAM has a famous video where they lay the bike sideways and jump on the derailleur while shifting, without it bending. Admittedly that model is out of price range for most riders. Ideally you should give the chain a quick rinse and brush of to prevent grime from accumulating. Sure, the internal gears are a bit easier in that regard, because you don't need to get into the cassette. Otherwise from a reliability standpoint they should take equal beating. The cleaning frequency depends a lot on the oil you use also, wet lube will accumulate more grime than dry.

Doctor_Fegg 2y ago
> SRAM has a famous video I presume you don’t mean the Bauke Mollema one? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsk3zAZyLaQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsk3zAZyLaQ
microtonal 2y ago
Still cleaning regularly is a lot of work (been there) and most people here never clean it, resulting in unreliable shifting and non-smooth cycling. Most people are better served by an internal hub and belt drive. Almost no maintenance (just bring it to a bike shop yearly to get it tuned up again).
- londons_explore 2y ago
  Internal hubs are common in places where biking is common - ie. Amsterdam. Derailleur's just seem to be far cheaper, I suspect because most of their parts can be made from stamped steel, whereas most parts of an internal gearbox must be CNC machined and face hardened.
  - dsego 2y ago
    > Internal hubs are common in places where biking is common - ie. Amsterdam. And by sheer coincidence, the popularity of bicycles and internal hubs coincides with having extremely flat terrain.

Angostura 2y ago

I’ve been commuting weekdays on a bike with ‘finicky derailleurs for 30 years. Probably had problems with them twice.

macrolime 2y ago
I've had complete opposite experiences, there is issues with the derailleurs constantly. Switching to internal gears and a belt instead of a chain has made commuting a much better experience and may in some cases actually cheaper in the long run when you factor in the saved maintenance time and costs.

watwut 2y ago

Practically, all the "all weather" bike commuters I know do a yearly maintenance at best and that is it. It is not that finnicky, actually, unless you aim for maximum performance or do hardcore mountain biking (those do maintenance after each ride). It is dirty after rain, but they still just leave it at that.

dsego 2y ago

I think the finicky part is the indexing system, the old friction shifters were way more reliable. On an indexing shifter any knock on the rear mech can bend the hanger and mess up the shifting and it can't be adjusted without straightening the hanger. A good indicator of a bent derailleur hanger is that adjusting works on one part of the cassette but than causes issues on the other end. On a friction shifter it doesn't matter, you can always make adjustments by hand. Internal hubs are heavy, drag like mud and usually require twist shifters.

notnmeyer 2y ago

derailleurs are easy to adjust once you understand how. 99% of the time you only need the high and low limit adjustments. decent bikes derailleur hangers. they’re simple and they work reliably enough. why do we need something more complicated? building a touring bike for remote areas? reliability wins, internal transmission and belt drive sounds smart. otherwise, your money is better spent on nicer brakes, lighter weight wheels, nice hubs, etc.

kjkjadksj 2y ago

You know what bike lasts forever? Friction shift. I first noticed this in college. There would be new bikes and then really old bikes that had friction shifters. Hardly any maybe 10-20 year old bikes interestingly. All you really need to do for friction shift bikes are tires brakes and lube. You don’t really need to fuss with adjusting the derailer since theres no indexing you just move it with your lever until its in gear, wherever that may be. Plus you can get an entire friction shift bike in working order for like $50 sometimes.

scheme271 2y ago

An internal hub and a gates belt really reduces the amount of maintenance needed to keep your bike running well. The belt avoids most of the chain issues and doesn't need a properly lubed chain to function and moving the gears inside reduces the contamination that cogs get exposed to.