8 ms·

If it's a Chinese e-bike, it's probably lying about being IPX67. OTOH, Riese & Müller $15k USD e-bikes aren't IPX anything because the Bosch components aren't.

If it's a Chinese e-bike, it's probably lying about being IPX67. OTOH, Riese & Müller $15k USD e-bikes aren't IPX anything because the Bosch components aren't. If you get it wet, just kiss that money goodbye. Absolutely bonkers.

39896880 2y ago
I’m glad you wrote this. I have one of these, and I love it, but haven’t ridden it in the rain. Now I won’t. I thought it might be okay because, as you pointed out, it definitely wasn’t cheap.
- ornornor 2y ago
  Here in Switzerland they rent them out (carvelo2go) and they seem to be doing just fine in (rainy) Switzerland.
jeffbee 2y ago
I think it really pays to go with an e-bike from an actual bicycle company. The Trek TQ system for example is submersible (IP67) and has a 2-year warranty, same as Bosch.
- mjevans 2y ago
  Is IP67 safe to wash like a car? Soapy sponge and reasonable hose pressure (not pressure washer) spray?
  - WJW 2y ago
    IP67 means "completely dust proof and submersible up to 1 meter". You can safely hose it down to clean it, pressure washers are probably a bit much.
    - hughesjj 2y ago
      There's actually bespoke pressure washer codes for the IP system, suffixing with a K https://www.polycase.com/techtalk/waterproof-electronic-enclosures/ip66k-rated-enclosures.html https://www.polycase.com/techtalk/waterproof-electronic-encl... That said even ip66 is supposed to be resistant to 'jets' of water, like ~hose pressure. Also, fwiw, I've never seen these used on prebuilt ebike components.
    - aliher1911 2y ago
      Is it safe to generalize like that? IP67 is a certification criteria that says that it must withstand conditions for certain amount of time during the test. But it doesn't say anything about doing it twice or how long you must wait between tries. For electronics it sometimes achieved by gel that can hold liquid for 30 min before water penetrates. It may eventually get dry again, but that is not covered by certification. Another point is that testing is done in distilled water, any impurities like oils can increase its penetrating ability and reduce the time. To me it looks like it's all down to actual manufacturer and item. IP rating is better than "splashproof" but still very vague.
yabatopia 2y ago
Huh, that’s not my experience. My wife rides to work on her R&M e-bike, every working day, all year round, in sun, rain or snow. Daily distance is about 40km (25 miles), two hours back and forth. Not a single major problem caused by water in more than 5 years.
- hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
  They don't mention any specific IPX rating, however they claim it's "rain resistant". https://www.r-m.de/en-us/service/faq/ https://www.r-m.de/en-us/service/faq/ Yes. You can use the system in the rain without any concerns. It is protected against rain and splashes, but not against riding through rivers when the motor is submerged in water. Equivalent of about IPX54. To me, this means it's not really waterproof (IPX?7) should it fall a puddle when it rains. Never spray it with a garden hose or pressure washer while washing. And, it's really a gamble to take it in the rain. Plus, like cell phones, they tend to lose IPX protection when repaired because of customary sloppy repair jobs that fail to restore gaskets.
ARandomerDude 2y ago
Serious question, why would a person spend that kind of money on an ebike? An entry-level motorcycle is less than half that. What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? One example among many: https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500 https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500
- elbasti 2y ago
  Serious answer: they are lighter, quieter, go slower, handle differently, and have access to different infrastructure. The lighter and slower bit may sound glib, but it makes a huge difference to what it feels like to ride them and to have them ridden around you.
  - nox101 2y ago
    a Riese and Muller is not a light bike
    - fatrat 2y ago
      It's a heavy bike, but a very light motorcycle, which is the point
- petre 2y ago
  > What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? Exercise and silence.
  - nox101 2y ago
    Most bikes are not silent. Worse, it's getting popular to make them loud. I was looking for an e-mtb recently. Tried a Trek ($4.5k down from $7.5k), ridiculously loud hub. Sales person claimed (falsely) that the more pro the hub the louder. Talked to another dealer who gave me the same story.
    - cujo 2y ago
janandonly 2y ago
$15K ??? I’m just checking their website. If you buy a “Culture Touring” e-bike from Riese & Müller you pay about €4K. That is still a lot of money. But not nearly as much as $15K. Link: https://www.r-m.de/nl/bikes/culture/ https://www.r-m.de/nl/bikes/culture/
- hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
  That's your costs where you are. That's not what they cost where I am. https://electricavenuebike.com/store/riese-muller-load-75-rohloff-hs/ https://electricavenuebike.com/store/riese-muller-load-75-ro...
  - janandonly 2y ago
    Yes. I was trying to make a point an out absurt price differentiation based on location.
    - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
      Buy lots there and arbitrage them here. ;) (Might not work because of the warranty arrangements.) Also, it appears a subset of Americans have way, way too much money and are begging to be relieved of this burden.

39896880 2y ago

I’m glad you wrote this. I have one of these, and I love it, but haven’t ridden it in the rain. Now I won’t. I thought it might be okay because, as you pointed out, it definitely wasn’t cheap.

ornornor 2y ago
Here in Switzerland they rent them out (carvelo2go) and they seem to be doing just fine in (rainy) Switzerland.

jeffbee 2y ago

I think it really pays to go with an e-bike from an actual bicycle company. The Trek TQ system for example is submersible (IP67) and has a 2-year warranty, same as Bosch.

mjevans 2y ago
Is IP67 safe to wash like a car? Soapy sponge and reasonable hose pressure (not pressure washer) spray?
- WJW 2y ago
  IP67 means "completely dust proof and submersible up to 1 meter". You can safely hose it down to clean it, pressure washers are probably a bit much.
  - hughesjj 2y ago
    There's actually bespoke pressure washer codes for the IP system, suffixing with a K https://www.polycase.com/techtalk/waterproof-electronic-enclosures/ip66k-rated-enclosures.html https://www.polycase.com/techtalk/waterproof-electronic-encl... That said even ip66 is supposed to be resistant to 'jets' of water, like ~hose pressure. Also, fwiw, I've never seen these used on prebuilt ebike components.
  - aliher1911 2y ago
    Is it safe to generalize like that? IP67 is a certification criteria that says that it must withstand conditions for certain amount of time during the test. But it doesn't say anything about doing it twice or how long you must wait between tries. For electronics it sometimes achieved by gel that can hold liquid for 30 min before water penetrates. It may eventually get dry again, but that is not covered by certification. Another point is that testing is done in distilled water, any impurities like oils can increase its penetrating ability and reduce the time. To me it looks like it's all down to actual manufacturer and item. IP rating is better than "splashproof" but still very vague.

yabatopia 2y ago

Huh, that’s not my experience. My wife rides to work on her R&M e-bike, every working day, all year round, in sun, rain or snow. Daily distance is about 40km (25 miles), two hours back and forth. Not a single major problem caused by water in more than 5 years.

hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
They don't mention any specific IPX rating, however they claim it's "rain resistant". https://www.r-m.de/en-us/service/faq/ https://www.r-m.de/en-us/service/faq/ Yes. You can use the system in the rain without any concerns. It is protected against rain and splashes, but not against riding through rivers when the motor is submerged in water. Equivalent of about IPX54. To me, this means it's not really waterproof (IPX?7) should it fall a puddle when it rains. Never spray it with a garden hose or pressure washer while washing. And, it's really a gamble to take it in the rain. Plus, like cell phones, they tend to lose IPX protection when repaired because of customary sloppy repair jobs that fail to restore gaskets.

ARandomerDude 2y ago

Serious question, why would a person spend that kind of money on an ebike? An entry-level motorcycle is less than half that. What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? One example among many: https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500 https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500

elbasti 2y ago
Serious answer: they are lighter, quieter, go slower, handle differently, and have access to different infrastructure. The lighter and slower bit may sound glib, but it makes a huge difference to what it feels like to ride them and to have them ridden around you.
- nox101 2y ago
  a Riese and Muller is not a light bike
  - fatrat 2y ago
    It's a heavy bike, but a very light motorcycle, which is the point
petre 2y ago
> What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? Exercise and silence.
- nox101 2y ago
  Most bikes are not silent. Worse, it's getting popular to make them loud. I was looking for an e-mtb recently. Tried a Trek ($4.5k down from $7.5k), ridiculously loud hub. Sales person claimed (falsely) that the more pro the hub the louder. Talked to another dealer who gave me the same story.
  - cujo 2y ago

janandonly 2y ago

$15K ??? I’m just checking their website. If you buy a “Culture Touring” e-bike from Riese & Müller you pay about €4K. That is still a lot of money. But not nearly as much as $15K. Link: https://www.r-m.de/nl/bikes/culture/ https://www.r-m.de/nl/bikes/culture/

hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
That's your costs where you are. That's not what they cost where I am. https://electricavenuebike.com/store/riese-muller-load-75-rohloff-hs/ https://electricavenuebike.com/store/riese-muller-load-75-ro...
- janandonly 2y ago
  Yes. I was trying to make a point an out absurt price differentiation based on location.
  - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
    Buy lots there and arbitrage them here. ;) (Might not work because of the warranty arrangements.) Also, it appears a subset of Americans have way, way too much money and are begging to be relieved of this burden.