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I find it difficult to take the technology review seriously with the off topic remarks and prefaces about Musk and Tesla at the beginning of the post.

guitarlimeo 2y ago
I find that apologetic behaviour strange too. You own a Tesla, it's a good car, no need to be sorry for its frontman. I mean I kinda get it? But everyone's doing it and it's weird. It's almost like writing a review of meat and apologizing for eating meat beforehand.
- asddubs 2y ago
  I think it's because people don't want to come off as endorsing elon musk/distance themselves from his weirder fans. I'll say though, 3 years ago is well after he called that one rescue diver a pedo so I don't know if the opening statement totally holds. Not that I really care that much.
  - guitarlimeo 2y ago
    Distancing is a good point, but maybe still not needed given that this is real critique. I would understand the distancing more if this review was praising FSD.
  - michelsedgh 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - KaiserPro 2y ago
      I think the difference is that the CEO of Apple isn't actively engaged in public divisive discourse on hot button issues. Don't get me wrong, I actively dislike the breathless discourse without any analysis (apple is the privacy leader, ok great, prove it...)
    - asddubs 2y ago
      I think people did, to some extent. "Not an apple fanboy, but..." is a sentence i've heard more than once. But apple's figurehead never made as much of a habit as acting publicly obnoxious, not even during the steve jobs days
- demondemidi 2y ago
  [flagged]
- light_hue_1 2y ago
  It's because the brand is borderline toxic now. I've seen it firsthand living in a very liberal area. 3 years ago people loved the brand. People would strike up conversation about it. It was all upbeat, happy and hopeful. Now, people rarely talk about it. And when they do it's apologetically. It often ends with some down statement about politics. Someone saying there were no other choices. Just a crappy time. I love my Tesla. It's a great car. But it's my last. I want nothing to do with this type of politics or conversation. I for one am sorry for its frontman. It's a good car that I don't want again... That's just stupid of him.
  - throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
    > very liberal area This is the problem, people treat their political ideology like a sports team.
  - vsuperpower2020 2y ago
    Sounds less like they're actually upset about their purchase, and more like they're afraid to be bullied. It's a good strategy. I'm all for making people apologize and pre-emptively justify making decisions I don't like.
- arlcode 2y ago
  There is probably a reason why we hear very little about the political opinions of most Megacorp CEOs on a daily basis. I'm sure I would agree with some of them and disagree with others but they are smart enough to not make that a center piece of their public persona. Elon Musk decided on his own to a) be a central marketing and PR channel of Tesla. He has everyone convinced that the company cannot thrive otherwise. b) involve himself in hot button political discussions all around the globe (usually in a "hot-take-no-need-for-further-reasearch" manner). c) buy a social media company while publicly lamenting the state of social media. At said social media he (again very publicly) instituted changes to align it with his political philosophy. Whether one likes or dislikes his opinions, it is very clear that he wants to be seen as some kind of political influencer and that he bases some of his business decisions on this persona. This is quite unusual and probably the sole reason people even think about the "frontmann" of the company when discussing the product
  - throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
    > Elon Musk decided on his own to It's funny though because before Elon CEOs were hated just as much. Mostly because they are all bucketed together as too rich, too much control and not being as open in communication on decisions. Now a new CEO disrupts (part of) that , and everyone hates him even more. Mostly because they just disagree with his comments. It's very strange tbh. Should we be encouraging the transparency in CEO outspokenness regardless if you agree or not?
Larrikin 2y ago
If you aren't in the cult of personality, a lot of people need to justify it at this point. I have no interest in buying a Tesla unless he divests fully. Everyone else seems to be catching up without lying about their projected capabilities and I don't need an EV today. I don't want to give him any more money than he has.
- roenxi 2y ago
  How many CEOs & owners have you vetted when making purchases? CEOs are a pretty shady crew as a class of people; it attracts people who like power and they are the dangerous ones. Or people who are single-minded in their focus and they tend to come with a raft of unusual views and personalities. And even after vetting, you're probably just biasing your purchases in favour of CEOs who do image management rather than people you'd actually like to support. If you're buying cars based inversely on how much money the company owner has, you're implicitly ruling out a lot of good options. It is using the language a bit loosely but in some relevant sense we'd expect people who make the most cost-effective products to make the most profit.
  - ZeroGravitas 2y ago
    "It is better to be silent and be thought a sociopathic fascist, than to speak and remove all doubt!" -- Mark Twain
    - vsuperpower2020 2y ago
      "sociopathic fascist" wasn't on my redditer bingo card today.
  - Larrikin 2y ago
    I don't know the name of a single other car company's CEO. If they are in the news or a topic of conversation among friends for a questionable or objectionable reason, I will evaluate them. Terrible people can be unknown for long periods of time, but it's not worth my time to investigate everyone just to be fair to Musk and his fans.
  - 2y ago
CarRamrod 2y ago
TV said he was buying a Tony Stark car. Then TV revealed that Tony Stark was two Mussolinis in a trenchcoat. Car bad now
- Onavo 2y ago
  > TV said he was buying a Tony Stark car. Then TV revealed that Tony Stark was two Mussolinis in a trenchcoat. Car bad now Do you celebrate the moon landing? The US maintaining a constant lead in aerospace over the rest of the world? Those were built by the Mussolini supporters of the world. NASA and Saturn V would not have existed if not for the nice German folks who were recruited to work for Uncle Sam. Science and engineering are more apolitical than you think.
  - KaiserPro 2y ago
    > Those were built by the Mussolini supporters of the world I mean that's a stretch. Were they designed by literal ex-nazis? yes. Crucially I don't remember von braun interceding in political discussions advocating for a position on anything other than space. But there are two points that stem from this: can a person change (for better or worse)? can the public at large reliably recognise that change?
    - t43562 2y ago
      Von Braun was a Nazi party member and used slave labor IIRC. Why would anyone think he would change? I bet Von Braun didn't. The US just used him, after trying not to, because he was too useful. Nobody was going to give him any more slave labor so what evil could he do? Musk is another kettle of fish - he's very rich and has the potential to do a great deal of evil.
    - throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
      Who cares what he puts on Twitter. IMO people are too obsessed over what people put on social media. Actions matter, words much much less (In this scope). Judge people for what they do, not what they say (10000x on twitter).
KaiserPro 2y ago
I suspect its because having a personality lead company implies that people buying that product tend to agree with the personality. Tesla is an extreme example, Elon is either Jesus, or Judas. There is no in between. I have a Powerewall, because it was at the time the best product. When I do talk about it, the second or third question is: "what do you think of, you know, nod, nod, wink, wink". He's a polarising figure, which makes getting useful reviews out of their products/business practices hard. (same with Facebook, Nestle and other pariahs.)
- throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
  Would you still buy the Powerwall today?
  - KaiserPro 2y ago
    I've not looked recently, but giving it a cursory look there are stackable systems out there for ~£1.1k per 5kwh, which is about a third of the price of a power wall. They also have local APIs which is really nice to integrate into Home Automation. It looks like the powerwall isn't the best anymore, so I probably wouldn't

guitarlimeo 2y ago

I find that apologetic behaviour strange too. You own a Tesla, it's a good car, no need to be sorry for its frontman. I mean I kinda get it? But everyone's doing it and it's weird. It's almost like writing a review of meat and apologizing for eating meat beforehand.

asddubs 2y ago
I think it's because people don't want to come off as endorsing elon musk/distance themselves from his weirder fans. I'll say though, 3 years ago is well after he called that one rescue diver a pedo so I don't know if the opening statement totally holds. Not that I really care that much.
- guitarlimeo 2y ago
  Distancing is a good point, but maybe still not needed given that this is real critique. I would understand the distancing more if this review was praising FSD.
- michelsedgh 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - KaiserPro 2y ago
    I think the difference is that the CEO of Apple isn't actively engaged in public divisive discourse on hot button issues. Don't get me wrong, I actively dislike the breathless discourse without any analysis (apple is the privacy leader, ok great, prove it...)
  - asddubs 2y ago
    I think people did, to some extent. "Not an apple fanboy, but..." is a sentence i've heard more than once. But apple's figurehead never made as much of a habit as acting publicly obnoxious, not even during the steve jobs days
demondemidi 2y ago
[flagged]
light_hue_1 2y ago
It's because the brand is borderline toxic now. I've seen it firsthand living in a very liberal area. 3 years ago people loved the brand. People would strike up conversation about it. It was all upbeat, happy and hopeful. Now, people rarely talk about it. And when they do it's apologetically. It often ends with some down statement about politics. Someone saying there were no other choices. Just a crappy time. I love my Tesla. It's a great car. But it's my last. I want nothing to do with this type of politics or conversation. I for one am sorry for its frontman. It's a good car that I don't want again... That's just stupid of him.
- throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
  > very liberal area This is the problem, people treat their political ideology like a sports team.
- vsuperpower2020 2y ago
  Sounds less like they're actually upset about their purchase, and more like they're afraid to be bullied. It's a good strategy. I'm all for making people apologize and pre-emptively justify making decisions I don't like.
arlcode 2y ago
There is probably a reason why we hear very little about the political opinions of most Megacorp CEOs on a daily basis. I'm sure I would agree with some of them and disagree with others but they are smart enough to not make that a center piece of their public persona. Elon Musk decided on his own to a) be a central marketing and PR channel of Tesla. He has everyone convinced that the company cannot thrive otherwise. b) involve himself in hot button political discussions all around the globe (usually in a "hot-take-no-need-for-further-reasearch" manner). c) buy a social media company while publicly lamenting the state of social media. At said social media he (again very publicly) instituted changes to align it with his political philosophy. Whether one likes or dislikes his opinions, it is very clear that he wants to be seen as some kind of political influencer and that he bases some of his business decisions on this persona. This is quite unusual and probably the sole reason people even think about the "frontmann" of the company when discussing the product
- throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
  > Elon Musk decided on his own to It's funny though because before Elon CEOs were hated just as much. Mostly because they are all bucketed together as too rich, too much control and not being as open in communication on decisions. Now a new CEO disrupts (part of) that , and everyone hates him even more. Mostly because they just disagree with his comments. It's very strange tbh. Should we be encouraging the transparency in CEO outspokenness regardless if you agree or not?

Larrikin 2y ago

If you aren't in the cult of personality, a lot of people need to justify it at this point. I have no interest in buying a Tesla unless he divests fully. Everyone else seems to be catching up without lying about their projected capabilities and I don't need an EV today. I don't want to give him any more money than he has.

roenxi 2y ago
How many CEOs & owners have you vetted when making purchases? CEOs are a pretty shady crew as a class of people; it attracts people who like power and they are the dangerous ones. Or people who are single-minded in their focus and they tend to come with a raft of unusual views and personalities. And even after vetting, you're probably just biasing your purchases in favour of CEOs who do image management rather than people you'd actually like to support. If you're buying cars based inversely on how much money the company owner has, you're implicitly ruling out a lot of good options. It is using the language a bit loosely but in some relevant sense we'd expect people who make the most cost-effective products to make the most profit.
- ZeroGravitas 2y ago
  "It is better to be silent and be thought a sociopathic fascist, than to speak and remove all doubt!" -- Mark Twain
  - vsuperpower2020 2y ago
    "sociopathic fascist" wasn't on my redditer bingo card today.
- Larrikin 2y ago
  I don't know the name of a single other car company's CEO. If they are in the news or a topic of conversation among friends for a questionable or objectionable reason, I will evaluate them. Terrible people can be unknown for long periods of time, but it's not worth my time to investigate everyone just to be fair to Musk and his fans.
- 2y ago

CarRamrod 2y ago

TV said he was buying a Tony Stark car. Then TV revealed that Tony Stark was two Mussolinis in a trenchcoat. Car bad now

Onavo 2y ago
> TV said he was buying a Tony Stark car. Then TV revealed that Tony Stark was two Mussolinis in a trenchcoat. Car bad now Do you celebrate the moon landing? The US maintaining a constant lead in aerospace over the rest of the world? Those were built by the Mussolini supporters of the world. NASA and Saturn V would not have existed if not for the nice German folks who were recruited to work for Uncle Sam. Science and engineering are more apolitical than you think.
- KaiserPro 2y ago
  > Those were built by the Mussolini supporters of the world I mean that's a stretch. Were they designed by literal ex-nazis? yes. Crucially I don't remember von braun interceding in political discussions advocating for a position on anything other than space. But there are two points that stem from this: can a person change (for better or worse)? can the public at large reliably recognise that change?
  - t43562 2y ago
    Von Braun was a Nazi party member and used slave labor IIRC. Why would anyone think he would change? I bet Von Braun didn't. The US just used him, after trying not to, because he was too useful. Nobody was going to give him any more slave labor so what evil could he do? Musk is another kettle of fish - he's very rich and has the potential to do a great deal of evil.
  - throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
    Who cares what he puts on Twitter. IMO people are too obsessed over what people put on social media. Actions matter, words much much less (In this scope). Judge people for what they do, not what they say (10000x on twitter).

KaiserPro 2y ago

I suspect its because having a personality lead company implies that people buying that product tend to agree with the personality. Tesla is an extreme example, Elon is either Jesus, or Judas. There is no in between. I have a Powerewall, because it was at the time the best product. When I do talk about it, the second or third question is: "what do you think of, you know, nod, nod, wink, wink". He's a polarising figure, which makes getting useful reviews out of their products/business practices hard. (same with Facebook, Nestle and other pariahs.)

throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
Would you still buy the Powerwall today?
- KaiserPro 2y ago
  I've not looked recently, but giving it a cursory look there are stackable systems out there for ~£1.1k per 5kwh, which is about a third of the price of a power wall. They also have local APIs which is really nice to integrate into Home Automation. It looks like the powerwall isn't the best anymore, so I probably wouldn't