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'We walked into an empty room that once was the metal shop. It was perfect. I could imagine it having tools and materials and workbenches. I could imagine group

'We walked into an empty room that once was the metal shop. It was perfect. I could imagine it having tools and materials and workbenches. I could imagine groups of curious kids being active, social, and mobile. ' When I was in 6th grade, they let us use a spot welder and press brake. I still have the box I made out of folded sheet metal from that time. We also had to make a little container out of folded sheet metal that surrounded an egg. The metal shop teacher piled weights on everyone's in the class until the eggs broke. In 8th grade (2001), they let us use MIG welders and the project was to make a crane with the maximum cantilever given a set of counterweights and a limited amount of 1/8"x1" steel. I remember the entire class standing around watching as we piled weights up until they failed spectactulary. It's not a coincidence that those are some of my (few) vivid memories of middle school. I remember being bored in a lot of classes that simply weren't challenging enough, but never in metal shop or science class. They don't even have metal or wood shop in the middle school anymore. They barely have it in the high school. It's probably some combination of safety and budget, but can anyone imagine the school allowing basically 13 year olds to handle MIG welders anymore? It gets hot! Or sheet metal in 11 year olds hands? It's sharp! By high school all of the best and brightest are maxing out AP classes for college applications. There is no time left for 'fun' classes like metal shop if you aren't going to trade school. (That becomes quite apparent when you get to college and there are mechanical engineer majors who can't work a hand drill.) If we lose all of this stuff, we are going to lose the next generation of engineers. FIRST robotics is a great program, but we need more things like it.

tseabrooks 14y ago
FIRST Robotics was an amazing experience. Our sponsoring university basically let us have free reign of their machine shop and made us do all the work ourselves, They just offered assistance if asked. Some of my favorite memories of school. Likewise, when we built 6 foot tall working trebuches in Calc... that was also a blast. I hope my future kids have these kinds of opportunities in school.
exDM69 14y ago
I, too, was fortunate to have woodworking, mig welding, electronics soldering, combustion engine repair and a little aircraft building as a part of my middle-high school education. I enjoyed it a lot and I learned a lot of stuff that I would have not learned by reading books and taking exams. But I guess American kids won't need any of that since everything is manufactured in China these days. You just need a lot of lawyers to keep the Chinese from stealing your intellectual property.
- gcheong 14y ago
  Manufactered in China, but designed and prototyped in the US. Which would you rather have your kids doing?
  - jarrett 14y ago
    Exactly. And to design and prototype something, you need engineers who understand the tools and materials. You can't design a stamped metal part for a Chinese factory if you never learned about stamping metal.
  - exDM69 14y ago
    How long do you think the situation is sustainable? I'd prefer my kids be proficient with power tools, computers and pen & paper, all of them are necessary.
    - gcheong 14y ago
      I completely agree. I would say that the situation is sustainable if we are careful not to lose the whatever advantage we have and if we invest in finding new ones but also very tenuous given the global nature of our world today and the nature of the competition that is arising. In case I misunderstood, I agree that losing the classes you mention could very well mean losing our edge in design and invention but losing spec work to factories in China is not a very good argument to keep those classes.
  - iRobot 14y ago
    Total and utter bollocks. Millions of Chinese students have or will have done engineering and science at the degree level, that combined with the Chinese business acumen will almost certainly ensure them both designing and building the things we require in the future. The USA will however have plenty of patent lawyers to ensure they are all sued if they try to get too clever.
- danielweber 14y ago
  The United States manufactures more than ever before. (Well, the recession probably drooped output a little bit.) China manufactures more stuff than ever, too, so they are a larger share of the world market.
hef19898 14y ago
Reminds me of getting at least a small workshop in my house ASAP! Not the welding machines, I risk brning my house down myself, but at least a wood shop. Still remember the fun I had with my grandfather in his work shop (wood and later metal). Every kid should get that oppurtunity!
- exDM69 14y ago
  I live in a small cramped apartment, but I'd really like to do some wood works. So I bought some balsa wood and a few small tools to do some miniature models. It's not like doing real carpentry but will do until I get myself a shack to fit a band saw in.
  - hef19898 14y ago
    Exactly. And since not everyone has the luxury of his private workshop, I really support that schools should provide that. I'm only affraid that in a world where 8 year olds are still forbidden to use real sicorrs you're gonna have a rough ride in order to do so...
    - excuse-me 14y ago
      We got a box of those kindergarten scissors in grad school! Although there was a theoretical astrophysics group who probably shouldn't have been allowed crayons without careful supervision
    - sopooneo 14y ago
      I also live in a small place, but I want my child to have the experience of building and using tools. Fortunately, just a couple blocks from my home is perhaps the most wonderful place I have ever been in my life. http://artisansasylum.com/?page_id=1336 http://artisansasylum.com/?page_id=1336 I have read about other similar places in New York, and I'm certain there must be stuff like this in the Bay Area. So if you're lucky enough to have something like this nearby, take advantage. I'm not sure what the kid policy is, but I'm really hoping they have or will create children's classes.
smacktoward 14y ago
Part of this is just a reflection of the changing economy. Shop classes were funded when there was a demand in our economy for people who made things. Now that we've outsourced the making of things to China, there's no perceived need for learning how things are made anymore; they just get made, somewhere out of sight, and when they break we throw them away and buy new ones. This is a strangely infantile way for a society to live. Part of the mystique grown-ups had to me when I was a kid was that grown-ups were the ones who knew how things worked -- I knew how to break my toys, but only grown-ups knew how to fix them. Growing up was the process of being initiated into these mysteries. That's less true today; now feels more like an age of adults striving to get back to the (blissful?) ignorance of childhood. Of course, this feeling could just be an artifact of my being an adult now :-D
- excuse-me 14y ago
  So how much demand is there in todays workplace for historians, geographers and spellers - but they still manage to find time on the curriculum
  - knz 14y ago
    There is plenty of demand for Geography graduates. From an IT perspective - understanding Geographic Information Systems (GIS) software is essential in many industries - land management, natural resource exploitation, environmental modeling, transportation planning etc. A Geography degree usually involves a mixture of “hard” and “soft” science. While studying I did everything from climbing mountains to set off weather balloons to standing on a street corner interviewing people about their transportation behavior. I also spent far too long hacking away in Python and attended many classes that were essentially computer science/physics classes. Finding a job after graduation was not an issue at all and nearly everyone I graduated with walked into a well paying job that was often in an exotic location. Please don’t lump us in with historians! ;)
    - excuse-me 14y ago
      But did drawing ox-bow lakes really help you? It's the attitude that we should stop shop class because nobody is going to work in metal bashing anymore - and of course there is no way that exposure to engineering in school is going to lead to somebody being an aerospace engineer. While any 'proper' subject is sacrosanct
GFKjunior 14y ago
My grandfather was a welder and had a workshop in the back of his house. He took pride in being able to build anything and not buy it from the store, if anything he owned ever broke he would hack it himself. When I was a youngin, about 12, I used to watch him work for a few hours during the day then sneak back to the workshop in the middle of the night while everyone was sleeping. I would fire up the torch and start experimenting with all the scrap metals. Playing with a plasma torch at midnight with no supervision was probably very dangerous but it taught met the importance of being a builder in world of consumers.

tseabrooks 14y ago

FIRST Robotics was an amazing experience. Our sponsoring university basically let us have free reign of their machine shop and made us do all the work ourselves, They just offered assistance if asked. Some of my favorite memories of school. Likewise, when we built 6 foot tall working trebuches in Calc... that was also a blast. I hope my future kids have these kinds of opportunities in school.

exDM69 14y ago

I, too, was fortunate to have woodworking, mig welding, electronics soldering, combustion engine repair and a little aircraft building as a part of my middle-high school education. I enjoyed it a lot and I learned a lot of stuff that I would have not learned by reading books and taking exams. But I guess American kids won't need any of that since everything is manufactured in China these days. You just need a lot of lawyers to keep the Chinese from stealing your intellectual property.

gcheong 14y ago
Manufactered in China, but designed and prototyped in the US. Which would you rather have your kids doing?
- jarrett 14y ago
  Exactly. And to design and prototype something, you need engineers who understand the tools and materials. You can't design a stamped metal part for a Chinese factory if you never learned about stamping metal.
- exDM69 14y ago
  How long do you think the situation is sustainable? I'd prefer my kids be proficient with power tools, computers and pen & paper, all of them are necessary.
  - gcheong 14y ago
    I completely agree. I would say that the situation is sustainable if we are careful not to lose the whatever advantage we have and if we invest in finding new ones but also very tenuous given the global nature of our world today and the nature of the competition that is arising. In case I misunderstood, I agree that losing the classes you mention could very well mean losing our edge in design and invention but losing spec work to factories in China is not a very good argument to keep those classes.
- iRobot 14y ago
  Total and utter bollocks. Millions of Chinese students have or will have done engineering and science at the degree level, that combined with the Chinese business acumen will almost certainly ensure them both designing and building the things we require in the future. The USA will however have plenty of patent lawyers to ensure they are all sued if they try to get too clever.
danielweber 14y ago
The United States manufactures more than ever before. (Well, the recession probably drooped output a little bit.) China manufactures more stuff than ever, too, so they are a larger share of the world market.

hef19898 14y ago

Reminds me of getting at least a small workshop in my house ASAP! Not the welding machines, I risk brning my house down myself, but at least a wood shop. Still remember the fun I had with my grandfather in his work shop (wood and later metal). Every kid should get that oppurtunity!

exDM69 14y ago
I live in a small cramped apartment, but I'd really like to do some wood works. So I bought some balsa wood and a few small tools to do some miniature models. It's not like doing real carpentry but will do until I get myself a shack to fit a band saw in.
- hef19898 14y ago
  Exactly. And since not everyone has the luxury of his private workshop, I really support that schools should provide that. I'm only affraid that in a world where 8 year olds are still forbidden to use real sicorrs you're gonna have a rough ride in order to do so...
  - excuse-me 14y ago
    We got a box of those kindergarten scissors in grad school! Although there was a theoretical astrophysics group who probably shouldn't have been allowed crayons without careful supervision
  - sopooneo 14y ago
    I also live in a small place, but I want my child to have the experience of building and using tools. Fortunately, just a couple blocks from my home is perhaps the most wonderful place I have ever been in my life. http://artisansasylum.com/?page_id=1336 http://artisansasylum.com/?page_id=1336 I have read about other similar places in New York, and I'm certain there must be stuff like this in the Bay Area. So if you're lucky enough to have something like this nearby, take advantage. I'm not sure what the kid policy is, but I'm really hoping they have or will create children's classes.

smacktoward 14y ago

Part of this is just a reflection of the changing economy. Shop classes were funded when there was a demand in our economy for people who made things. Now that we've outsourced the making of things to China, there's no perceived need for learning how things are made anymore; they just get made, somewhere out of sight, and when they break we throw them away and buy new ones. This is a strangely infantile way for a society to live. Part of the mystique grown-ups had to me when I was a kid was that grown-ups were the ones who knew how things worked -- I knew how to break my toys, but only grown-ups knew how to fix them. Growing up was the process of being initiated into these mysteries. That's less true today; now feels more like an age of adults striving to get back to the (blissful?) ignorance of childhood. Of course, this feeling could just be an artifact of my being an adult now :-D

excuse-me 14y ago
So how much demand is there in todays workplace for historians, geographers and spellers - but they still manage to find time on the curriculum
- knz 14y ago
  There is plenty of demand for Geography graduates. From an IT perspective - understanding Geographic Information Systems (GIS) software is essential in many industries - land management, natural resource exploitation, environmental modeling, transportation planning etc. A Geography degree usually involves a mixture of “hard” and “soft” science. While studying I did everything from climbing mountains to set off weather balloons to standing on a street corner interviewing people about their transportation behavior. I also spent far too long hacking away in Python and attended many classes that were essentially computer science/physics classes. Finding a job after graduation was not an issue at all and nearly everyone I graduated with walked into a well paying job that was often in an exotic location. Please don’t lump us in with historians! ;)
  - excuse-me 14y ago
    But did drawing ox-bow lakes really help you? It's the attitude that we should stop shop class because nobody is going to work in metal bashing anymore - and of course there is no way that exposure to engineering in school is going to lead to somebody being an aerospace engineer. While any 'proper' subject is sacrosanct

GFKjunior 14y ago

My grandfather was a welder and had a workshop in the back of his house. He took pride in being able to build anything and not buy it from the store, if anything he owned ever broke he would hack it himself. When I was a youngin, about 12, I used to watch him work for a few hours during the day then sneak back to the workshop in the middle of the night while everyone was sleeping. I would fire up the torch and start experimenting with all the scrap metals. Playing with a plasma torch at midnight with no supervision was probably very dangerous but it taught met the importance of being a builder in world of consumers.