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He was en route somewhere else, the US cancelled his passport and downed diplomatic planes out of russia that they suspected he was on, this was an internationa

by dijit 2y ago

He was en route somewhere else, the US cancelled his passport and downed diplomatic planes out of russia that they suspected he was on, this was an international scandal that you conveniently forgot. Can we please put these myths to bed? or are you intending to intentionally spread this misinformation? EDIT: parent has edited their comment to be much less inflammatory.

decremental 2y ago
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mindslight 2y ago
What here are you saying is a myth? I've been a Snowden supporter from the beginning, but it's unwise to ignore the realpolitik of the current situation. It's not like if he starts saying things that are critical of Russia and draws aggro, he can just come back to the West without facing severe persecution. Based on his already having given up so much performing thankless patriotic service to the United States, I'd personally say he's entitled to just live out the rest of his days saying whatever the Kremlin tells him he needs to and otherwise just taking it easy. And I know that's a shitty position for him to be in while still seemingly having plenty to say himself, but that's the reality.
- dijit 2y ago
  The myth is that he ran to the enemy of the US to be friendly with Russia. There is no reason for the Kremlin to tell him to say anything. There would be a lot of negative consequences for that if it came out and Snowden is quite literally known for being outspoken, and it would also be harmful for Snowden if he was forced to say something untrue. Ironically our own politicians misrepresent the truth far more often than Snowden seems to. But obviously he is refraining from saying anything critical of the very obvious tyrannical situation in Russia
  - mindslight 2y ago
    I don't see that anybody here has said he ended up in Russia because he wanted to be friendly with Russia. Rather simply that going to Russia (and then getting stuck there) was the better alternative to being persecuted by USG. There would be no repercussions for the Kremlin being exposed as having instructed Snowden on what to say. Russian propaganda works in the presence of everyone knowing it's propaganda, by sheer volume. There would obviously be repercussions for Snowden if he talked about any such thing though. The dynamic could also merely just be the implication though, coupled with a bunch of understandable resentment from having been persecuted by USG. (and I don't really care to engage with the whataboutist relativist argument)
  - dralley 2y ago
    >There would be a lot of negative consequences for that if it came out The current Russian government doesn't seem too concerned about negative consequences, whether short or long-term. The consequence is what, bad PR? Lol. It's piss in the ocean. This wouldn't even register in the top 100,000 "negative consequences" that the Russian government is facing right now.
Smeevy 2y ago
What disinformation are you talking about? Does he not live in Russia with dual US and Russian citizenship? Is he somehow more free than everyone else in Russia to criticize the actions of the Russian government? I don't think Edward Snowden is a bad person. He followed his conscience and I can respect that. Now he is in a situation where his speech about everything other than the United States and its allies is limited. Are we supposed to believe that him criticizing the US doesn't bring him a material benefit? That there's no quid pro quo for keeping him out the US justice system? The events you've mentioned are WHY he is in Russia. The fact that he IS there and the Russian leverage over him is what makes me discount his statements.
- talldayo 2y ago
  > Are we supposed to believe that him criticizing the US doesn't bring him a material benefit? It sure worked out well for him when he had nothing to gain. And it's not like criticizing OpenAI is some absurd position to take, they're being run by the dude that was scanning people's eyes with a silver orb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldcoin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldcoin
- dijit 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - Smeevy 2y ago
    That was very rude and I hope it made you feel better. I will go on with my day knowing that the careful messaging about Russia provided by Edward Snowden is in no way affected by him wanting to stay alive and outside of a Russian prison.
NSHkr_hn 2y ago
From googling, Snow Don departed HK on 2013-06-22 and the US State Department cancelled his US passport on 2013-06-23.
- NSHkr_hn 2y ago
  Got the dates mixed up. Apparently they cancelled his passport on the 22nd, after which he departed. As to whether the cancellation catalyzed the flight to Moscow with help from HK is another question.

by dijit 2y ago

decremental 2y ago

[dead]

mindslight 2y ago

What here are you saying is a myth? I've been a Snowden supporter from the beginning, but it's unwise to ignore the realpolitik of the current situation. It's not like if he starts saying things that are critical of Russia and draws aggro, he can just come back to the West without facing severe persecution. Based on his already having given up so much performing thankless patriotic service to the United States, I'd personally say he's entitled to just live out the rest of his days saying whatever the Kremlin tells him he needs to and otherwise just taking it easy. And I know that's a shitty position for him to be in while still seemingly having plenty to say himself, but that's the reality.

dijit 2y ago
The myth is that he ran to the enemy of the US to be friendly with Russia. There is no reason for the Kremlin to tell him to say anything. There would be a lot of negative consequences for that if it came out and Snowden is quite literally known for being outspoken, and it would also be harmful for Snowden if he was forced to say something untrue. Ironically our own politicians misrepresent the truth far more often than Snowden seems to. But obviously he is refraining from saying anything critical of the very obvious tyrannical situation in Russia
- mindslight 2y ago
  I don't see that anybody here has said he ended up in Russia because he wanted to be friendly with Russia. Rather simply that going to Russia (and then getting stuck there) was the better alternative to being persecuted by USG. There would be no repercussions for the Kremlin being exposed as having instructed Snowden on what to say. Russian propaganda works in the presence of everyone knowing it's propaganda, by sheer volume. There would obviously be repercussions for Snowden if he talked about any such thing though. The dynamic could also merely just be the implication though, coupled with a bunch of understandable resentment from having been persecuted by USG. (and I don't really care to engage with the whataboutist relativist argument)
- dralley 2y ago
  >There would be a lot of negative consequences for that if it came out The current Russian government doesn't seem too concerned about negative consequences, whether short or long-term. The consequence is what, bad PR? Lol. It's piss in the ocean. This wouldn't even register in the top 100,000 "negative consequences" that the Russian government is facing right now.

Smeevy 2y ago

What disinformation are you talking about? Does he not live in Russia with dual US and Russian citizenship? Is he somehow more free than everyone else in Russia to criticize the actions of the Russian government? I don't think Edward Snowden is a bad person. He followed his conscience and I can respect that. Now he is in a situation where his speech about everything other than the United States and its allies is limited. Are we supposed to believe that him criticizing the US doesn't bring him a material benefit? That there's no quid pro quo for keeping him out the US justice system? The events you've mentioned are WHY he is in Russia. The fact that he IS there and the Russian leverage over him is what makes me discount his statements.

talldayo 2y ago
> Are we supposed to believe that him criticizing the US doesn't bring him a material benefit? It sure worked out well for him when he had nothing to gain. And it's not like criticizing OpenAI is some absurd position to take, they're being run by the dude that was scanning people's eyes with a silver orb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldcoin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldcoin
dijit 2y ago
[flagged]
- Smeevy 2y ago
  That was very rude and I hope it made you feel better. I will go on with my day knowing that the careful messaging about Russia provided by Edward Snowden is in no way affected by him wanting to stay alive and outside of a Russian prison.

NSHkr_hn 2y ago

From googling, Snow Don departed HK on 2013-06-22 and the US State Department cancelled his US passport on 2013-06-23.

NSHkr_hn 2y ago
Got the dates mixed up. Apparently they cancelled his passport on the 22nd, after which he departed. As to whether the cancellation catalyzed the flight to Moscow with help from HK is another question.