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What if you can't afford a Mac, and you're not technically literate enough to install Ubuntu ? Speaking for myself, I dual boot mint and windows because I real

What if you can't afford a Mac, and you're not technically literate enough to install Ubuntu ? Speaking for myself, I dual boot mint and windows because I really like playing games and making music. Both of those are absolutely subpar on Linux. Outside of our nerd bubble, most normal people don't really want to run desktop Linux. Macs are great, but I can't really game on them.

jahewson 2y ago
What is this laptop that costs less than a Mac but is good for gaming?
- MeetingsBrowser 2y ago
  A desktop, lol Most people playing games or on a desktop, not a laptop.
- FactKnower69 2y ago
  Steam Deck + bluetooth mouse and keyboard + external monitor if you want
- xcv123 2y ago
  There are cheap gaming laptops from Dell, HP, MSI, Asus, Gigabyte, Lenovo, Acer, Razer. Dell G15
- filleduchaos 2y ago
  Honestly, pretty much every laptop that isn't an absolute potato is good enough for gaming. Contrary to what both people who don't really play games and people who make their gaming rigs their entire identity tend to think, the vast majority of games on the market run just fine on half-decent hardware with a concession here and there as far as resolution, particle systems, etc go. At $700+ you can get plenty of bang for your buck; even more so if you buy secondhand.
- 999900000999 2y ago
  I just purchased a Amd 8845HS for about 750$ and I can run most games at mid spec. Tossed in a 4TB SSD and I'm very happy with my purchase. I have Mint installed along with Windows. Price out a 4TB Mac, you'll be spending an unholy amount of money. Plus in a few years when the 8TB SSDs are cheaper it's an easy upgrade.
creata 2y ago
If someone isn't technically literate enough to install Linux, they have three options: 1. Become technically literate enough to install Linux. Distros like Fedora are very easy to set up imo. 2. Ask someone else (relatives, local computer store, etc.) to set it up for you. 3. Continue using Windows.
- 999900000999 2y ago
  Alright. What happens when something weird happens and you have to manually change the kernel or your hardware just isn't supported. I still wouldn't recommend Linux to most normal people. So your stuck with 3 realistic options. Mac. Chromebook. Windows. Chromebooks are actually really capable, but forget gaming or serious music creation. I've been using desktop Linux for over 15 years. It's still much more work than normal people want to do.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    If by "change the kernel" you mean pick the backup one in the boot menu, that should almost never been needed but tech support can walk you through it. If you mean something else, you never need to do that as a normal user. Hardware just not working happens on other operating systems too, it just sucks. But normal people aren't swapping out important parts so at most some USB thingy doesn't work.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    > I still wouldn't recommend Linux to most normal people. Then I think you're making things hard on yourself. I'm a NixOS user, I know I cannot get everyone to install my specific system with all the bells and whistles. But you could walk a middle-schooler through installing Ubuntu or Fedora; it's easier than setting up an email account. Both Windows and MacOS are slowly rolling down a hill of bloat, surveillance and unusability that will eventually push people onto something else. Modern GNOME is basically just an iPad with more obvious on-screen controls. With distros supporting Flatpak, it doesn't even matter if you misconfigure your base system since all your apps are sandboxed anyways. I think the success of the Steam Deck kinda proves that people don't care what your desktop is as long as you have recent Chrome/Firefox and let them sideload stuff.
HaZeust 2y ago
ZorinOS is catching up FAST and QUICK with out-of-the-box gaming support, many thanks to Valve's bankroll into the problem with Proton (primarily) and Wine (secondarily) for the Steam Deck. I look forward to see where developments can go from here, but Zorin is pretty good for a solid amount of games... Maybe not most.
- k8svet 2y ago
  Give me a break. Its the kernel, drm, mesa, and proton. The distro haw scant all to do with it except a bunch of newbies loudly claiming "new distro" is the best because it includes one single extra package pre-installed or something. I will never stop being annoyed at conversations around distros. Ever.
  - creata 2y ago
    I get what you're saying, and I don't know much about "ZorinOS", but the discussion is about people who might struggle to install Linux at all, so having the right packages preinstalled is important.
    - k8svet 2y ago
      Okay. Now they have a distro from someone that doesn't care to respect licensing terms. And an end user who apparently can't be trained to click a few times in an app store... Yeah, let's imagine how they react to their entire system being broken and some rumblings of "well maybe if you change time". Yeah, sure, okay, I'm sure a user that can't install a package will be able to handle that. /s Maybe it's simply because I AM a distro maintainer, that I just roll my eyes at all of this. What's pre-installed is so trivial it's almost nothing to me when I think about why I chose my distro. How fast can they react to security reports? Are they abreast of developments in the Linux ecosystem and adjusting and experimenting with defaults? Really truly? Because even in (my distro) where I can tell you the names of owners of specific areas, there's still some gaps we could cover better. The curse of knowing too much. Or maybe my empathy meter is way off tonight. Idk.
  - Tarball10 2y ago
dialup_sounds 2y ago
Your comment encapsulates why normies get iPads and Chromebooks in spite of the nerd rage they generate.
grishka 2y ago
Then you install one of those slimmed down builds of Windows that removes almost everything that isn't required to run win32 software.
- okanat 2y ago
  Custom builds are not trustworthy. I have less trust to random nobodies on the Web than a corporation who still has to have some profits and acquire some trust. It doesn't mean they wouldn't use that trust and do things against my intentions, but the way they do things is more predictable.
pluc 2y ago
For anyone willing to try, the installers are exceedingly simple and Steam makes gaming a breeze. Getting away from that "it's for nerds" image you're referring to is exactly what Linux needs to do
Gormo 2y ago
> What if you can't afford a Mac, and you're not technically literate enough to install Ubuntu ? Problem: Uber is expensive, and you don't know how to drive, so getting around is a challenge. Solution: Learn how to drive.
segasaturn 2y ago
> What if you can't afford a Mac, and you're not technically literate enough to install Ubuntu ? Honestly, buy an iPad. You can get a new iPad for as cheap as $300 and it will adequately serve all of your basic needs. If you're not tech-literate enough to install Ubuntu (which is extremely easy and straightforward in my experience) then I don't think you will need the extra bells & whistles of owning a laptop.
MrDrMcCoy 2y ago
I'm genuinely curious to hear an actual musician's take on the following Linux-compatible DAWs: - Reaper - Tracktion Waveform - Bitwig - Fairlight - Zrythm - Ardour As for games, I've been 100% Linux for several years now, and haven't had much trouble. I'm only aware of issues with aggressive anticheat these days, but I refuse to give money to companies that push ring0-spyware anyway.
- 999900000999 2y ago
  I haven't used those tools, but Maschine, FL Studio, Akai's MPC(you can use it stand alone, but they heavily push the PC integration,) and Ableton are practically industry standards at this point. You can make music on anything, I'd imagine a skilled producer could do anything I can do in Maschine in Zrythm. But it's a matter of difficulty. Maschine has a series of custom midi instruments which are simply amazing. As for gaming, you could probably play the next Call of Duty with browser based cloud gaming when it hits gamepass. I definitely understand the benefits of Linux though. I think dual booting is the way to go.
  - MrDrMcCoy 2y ago
    Not being a user myself, I wouldn't know for sure, but I've heard that Bitwig is the cross-platform answer to Ableton. I've also heard that Reaper is the industry standard in various corners, with sizable market share. I only know these things from doing light audio work, mostly relating to video editing. In that world, DaVinci Resolve studio seems to be winning, and is thankfully cross-platform. Blackmagic is truly a wonderful company.
    - 999900000999 2y ago
      Bitwig does look interesting. I think it comes down to wait ultimately matters to you. Windows hasn't gotten so bad I want to avoid it entirely yet. I've used Maschine for like a decade, I don't really want to have to learn a new tool just to spite Microsoft. Plus if you have a job that requires Windows, it gets familiar... The devil you know
globular-toast 2y ago
GNU/Linux is easier than Windows. Present two new users with each and they'll find Linux easier. The technically literate part usually comes down to them having a PC with their data already on it. That's where you come in to help your friends back up their data so they can easily move between computers and OSes.

jahewson 2y ago

What is this laptop that costs less than a Mac but is good for gaming?

MeetingsBrowser 2y ago
A desktop, lol Most people playing games or on a desktop, not a laptop.
FactKnower69 2y ago
Steam Deck + bluetooth mouse and keyboard + external monitor if you want
xcv123 2y ago
There are cheap gaming laptops from Dell, HP, MSI, Asus, Gigabyte, Lenovo, Acer, Razer. Dell G15
filleduchaos 2y ago
Honestly, pretty much every laptop that isn't an absolute potato is good enough for gaming. Contrary to what both people who don't really play games and people who make their gaming rigs their entire identity tend to think, the vast majority of games on the market run just fine on half-decent hardware with a concession here and there as far as resolution, particle systems, etc go. At $700+ you can get plenty of bang for your buck; even more so if you buy secondhand.
999900000999 2y ago
I just purchased a Amd 8845HS for about 750$ and I can run most games at mid spec. Tossed in a 4TB SSD and I'm very happy with my purchase. I have Mint installed along with Windows. Price out a 4TB Mac, you'll be spending an unholy amount of money. Plus in a few years when the 8TB SSDs are cheaper it's an easy upgrade.

creata 2y ago

If someone isn't technically literate enough to install Linux, they have three options: 1. Become technically literate enough to install Linux. Distros like Fedora are very easy to set up imo. 2. Ask someone else (relatives, local computer store, etc.) to set it up for you. 3. Continue using Windows.

999900000999 2y ago
Alright. What happens when something weird happens and you have to manually change the kernel or your hardware just isn't supported. I still wouldn't recommend Linux to most normal people. So your stuck with 3 realistic options. Mac. Chromebook. Windows. Chromebooks are actually really capable, but forget gaming or serious music creation. I've been using desktop Linux for over 15 years. It's still much more work than normal people want to do.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  If by "change the kernel" you mean pick the backup one in the boot menu, that should almost never been needed but tech support can walk you through it. If you mean something else, you never need to do that as a normal user. Hardware just not working happens on other operating systems too, it just sucks. But normal people aren't swapping out important parts so at most some USB thingy doesn't work.
- talldayo 2y ago
  > I still wouldn't recommend Linux to most normal people. Then I think you're making things hard on yourself. I'm a NixOS user, I know I cannot get everyone to install my specific system with all the bells and whistles. But you could walk a middle-schooler through installing Ubuntu or Fedora; it's easier than setting up an email account. Both Windows and MacOS are slowly rolling down a hill of bloat, surveillance and unusability that will eventually push people onto something else. Modern GNOME is basically just an iPad with more obvious on-screen controls. With distros supporting Flatpak, it doesn't even matter if you misconfigure your base system since all your apps are sandboxed anyways. I think the success of the Steam Deck kinda proves that people don't care what your desktop is as long as you have recent Chrome/Firefox and let them sideload stuff.

HaZeust 2y ago

ZorinOS is catching up FAST and QUICK with out-of-the-box gaming support, many thanks to Valve's bankroll into the problem with Proton (primarily) and Wine (secondarily) for the Steam Deck. I look forward to see where developments can go from here, but Zorin is pretty good for a solid amount of games... Maybe not most.

k8svet 2y ago
Give me a break. Its the kernel, drm, mesa, and proton. The distro haw scant all to do with it except a bunch of newbies loudly claiming "new distro" is the best because it includes one single extra package pre-installed or something. I will never stop being annoyed at conversations around distros. Ever.
- creata 2y ago
  I get what you're saying, and I don't know much about "ZorinOS", but the discussion is about people who might struggle to install Linux at all, so having the right packages preinstalled is important.
  - k8svet 2y ago
    Okay. Now they have a distro from someone that doesn't care to respect licensing terms. And an end user who apparently can't be trained to click a few times in an app store... Yeah, let's imagine how they react to their entire system being broken and some rumblings of "well maybe if you change time". Yeah, sure, okay, I'm sure a user that can't install a package will be able to handle that. /s Maybe it's simply because I AM a distro maintainer, that I just roll my eyes at all of this. What's pre-installed is so trivial it's almost nothing to me when I think about why I chose my distro. How fast can they react to security reports? Are they abreast of developments in the Linux ecosystem and adjusting and experimenting with defaults? Really truly? Because even in (my distro) where I can tell you the names of owners of specific areas, there's still some gaps we could cover better. The curse of knowing too much. Or maybe my empathy meter is way off tonight. Idk.
- Tarball10 2y ago

dialup_sounds 2y ago

Your comment encapsulates why normies get iPads and Chromebooks in spite of the nerd rage they generate.

grishka 2y ago

Then you install one of those slimmed down builds of Windows that removes almost everything that isn't required to run win32 software.

okanat 2y ago
Custom builds are not trustworthy. I have less trust to random nobodies on the Web than a corporation who still has to have some profits and acquire some trust. It doesn't mean they wouldn't use that trust and do things against my intentions, but the way they do things is more predictable.

pluc 2y ago

For anyone willing to try, the installers are exceedingly simple and Steam makes gaming a breeze. Getting away from that "it's for nerds" image you're referring to is exactly what Linux needs to do

Gormo 2y ago

> What if you can't afford a Mac, and you're not technically literate enough to install Ubuntu ? Problem: Uber is expensive, and you don't know how to drive, so getting around is a challenge. Solution: Learn how to drive.

segasaturn 2y ago

> What if you can't afford a Mac, and you're not technically literate enough to install Ubuntu ? Honestly, buy an iPad. You can get a new iPad for as cheap as $300 and it will adequately serve all of your basic needs. If you're not tech-literate enough to install Ubuntu (which is extremely easy and straightforward in my experience) then I don't think you will need the extra bells & whistles of owning a laptop.

MrDrMcCoy 2y ago

I'm genuinely curious to hear an actual musician's take on the following Linux-compatible DAWs: - Reaper - Tracktion Waveform - Bitwig - Fairlight - Zrythm - Ardour As for games, I've been 100% Linux for several years now, and haven't had much trouble. I'm only aware of issues with aggressive anticheat these days, but I refuse to give money to companies that push ring0-spyware anyway.

999900000999 2y ago
I haven't used those tools, but Maschine, FL Studio, Akai's MPC(you can use it stand alone, but they heavily push the PC integration,) and Ableton are practically industry standards at this point. You can make music on anything, I'd imagine a skilled producer could do anything I can do in Maschine in Zrythm. But it's a matter of difficulty. Maschine has a series of custom midi instruments which are simply amazing. As for gaming, you could probably play the next Call of Duty with browser based cloud gaming when it hits gamepass. I definitely understand the benefits of Linux though. I think dual booting is the way to go.
- MrDrMcCoy 2y ago
  Not being a user myself, I wouldn't know for sure, but I've heard that Bitwig is the cross-platform answer to Ableton. I've also heard that Reaper is the industry standard in various corners, with sizable market share. I only know these things from doing light audio work, mostly relating to video editing. In that world, DaVinci Resolve studio seems to be winning, and is thankfully cross-platform. Blackmagic is truly a wonderful company.
  - 999900000999 2y ago
    Bitwig does look interesting. I think it comes down to wait ultimately matters to you. Windows hasn't gotten so bad I want to avoid it entirely yet. I've used Maschine for like a decade, I don't really want to have to learn a new tool just to spite Microsoft. Plus if you have a job that requires Windows, it gets familiar... The devil you know

globular-toast 2y ago

GNU/Linux is easier than Windows. Present two new users with each and they'll find Linux easier. The technically literate part usually comes down to them having a PC with their data already on it. That's where you come in to help your friends back up their data so they can easily move between computers and OSes.