4 ms·

Ex-NSA…how are we supposed to feel about this?

smt88 2y ago
We should be horrified and thank the many people who have blown the whistle about Sam Altman. He is dangerously greedy and has no principles.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Jimmc414 2y ago
  Do you not see the national security aspects of 2024 AI? It's very similar to the nuclear race where, right or wrong, there is a non-zero possibility of a winner take all supremacy scenario where the first to reach superintelligence rules the world.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    There may be a nonzero chance of developing a superintelligence (or even AGI in any meaningful sense), but it's so close to zero that it doesn't matter. Particularly because if a superintelligence is actually created, it won't matter who did it. It won't be the servant of the creators.
    - Jimmc414 2y ago
      >it's so close to zero that it doesn't matter. How can you so confidently assert that? AI just needs to beat humans at AI research to start compounding it's growth in performance. >It won't be the servant of the creators Human's are very paranoid and competitive because we've had to be for tens of thousands of generations to survive. Super intelligent or not why would AI start ignoring instructions or develop a survival instinct? This line of thinking has been popular in science fiction but what is it based on? Just because something is smarter than us, it will kill us, as Eliezer Yudkowsky asserted "because it wants our atoms"? It seems like we are viewing AI through a human lens. Superintelligence under human control is what scares the shit out of me. I see superintelligence as the only thing capable of saving humans from themselves.
      - montieferg 2y ago
        love this take.
      - JohnFen 2y ago
        > How can you so confidently assert that? Because I've seen no strong reason to think otherwise. However, everyone -- myself included -- is just guessing here. I could certainly be wrong. As could the ones of the opposite opinion. > AI just needs to beat humans at AI research to start compounding it's growth in performance. That's assuming that it's possible to create an AGI at all given our current direction. I seriously doubt that it is. Time will tell, though.
    - arisAlexis 2y ago
      You are extremely confident about what all 3 top AI labs and top 3 cited experts on the subject disagree with. Should I repeat the common quote of the problem in this world is....
      - JohnFen 2y ago
        Yes, I am. I'm not certain, of course, which is why I acknowledge a nonzero chance of it. There is not actually consensus about this amongst the experts in the field.
        arisAlexis 2y ago
        As I said, there actually is. All top 3 scientists and all 3 top labs that have built the tech you are referring too. It's unanimous. Sources: h-index of AI rankings LLM rankings Everyone can look them up and what their stance is.
  - staticman2 2y ago
    We don't let private companies own nuclear weapons, yet somehow these razzle dazzle claims of OpenAI's nuclear capabilities are never followed by "so nationalize OpenAI".
  - smt88 2y ago
    No credible AI expert thinks LLMs will lead to AGI. They are hilariously bad at most things and heavily dependent on questionable data sources like reddit.
    - soraminazuki 2y ago
      AI don't need to be competent to cause harm, just like humans. Just ask law enforcement arresting people because their face recognition AI told them to. Not that I trust governments trying to oversee them either...
  - darby_nine 2y ago
    If you swap out superintelligence with the market we're long past the point of no return. I don't see how ai could be any worse.
boomboomsubban 2y ago
Ex director of the NSA, but to be fair it has been a whole four months since then. What are the chances he still has connections with the agency?
- markus_zhang 2y ago
  Definitely zero.
  - benopal64 2y ago
    Yeah, they brain-wipe you after you leave the NSA /s
- manquer 2y ago
  Or rather that agency has still connections to him
- Ntrails 2y ago
  > What are the chances he still has connections with the agency? Inconceivable
- red_admiral 2y ago
  Part of Snowden's explanation for why he was doing NSA work as a BAH contractor was that this is perfectly normal: employees "leave" and are then employed as contractors to get around limits on number and compensation for federal employees. Keeping their security clearances, of course.
karaterobot 2y ago
[eye twitching] ... Good. Everything's so good.
JohnFen 2y ago
It looks to me like a sign that OpenAI is getting more comfortable with revealing their true colors.
WiSaGaN 2y ago
Google, Facebook already have signifiant number of "disinformation staff" from US security state. As another big tech firm that collects huge amount of info and get to decide what to present to the general public, it has be added to that list as well.

We should be horrified and thank the many people who have blown the whistle about Sam Altman. He is dangerously greedy and has no principles.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Jimmc414 2y ago
Do you not see the national security aspects of 2024 AI? It's very similar to the nuclear race where, right or wrong, there is a non-zero possibility of a winner take all supremacy scenario where the first to reach superintelligence rules the world.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  There may be a nonzero chance of developing a superintelligence (or even AGI in any meaningful sense), but it's so close to zero that it doesn't matter. Particularly because if a superintelligence is actually created, it won't matter who did it. It won't be the servant of the creators.
  - Jimmc414 2y ago
    >it's so close to zero that it doesn't matter. How can you so confidently assert that? AI just needs to beat humans at AI research to start compounding it's growth in performance. >It won't be the servant of the creators Human's are very paranoid and competitive because we've had to be for tens of thousands of generations to survive. Super intelligent or not why would AI start ignoring instructions or develop a survival instinct? This line of thinking has been popular in science fiction but what is it based on? Just because something is smarter than us, it will kill us, as Eliezer Yudkowsky asserted "because it wants our atoms"? It seems like we are viewing AI through a human lens. Superintelligence under human control is what scares the shit out of me. I see superintelligence as the only thing capable of saving humans from themselves.
    - montieferg 2y ago
      love this take.
    - JohnFen 2y ago
      > How can you so confidently assert that? Because I've seen no strong reason to think otherwise. However, everyone -- myself included -- is just guessing here. I could certainly be wrong. As could the ones of the opposite opinion. > AI just needs to beat humans at AI research to start compounding it's growth in performance. That's assuming that it's possible to create an AGI at all given our current direction. I seriously doubt that it is. Time will tell, though.
  - arisAlexis 2y ago
    You are extremely confident about what all 3 top AI labs and top 3 cited experts on the subject disagree with. Should I repeat the common quote of the problem in this world is....
    - JohnFen 2y ago
      Yes, I am. I'm not certain, of course, which is why I acknowledge a nonzero chance of it. There is not actually consensus about this amongst the experts in the field.
      - arisAlexis 2y ago
        As I said, there actually is. All top 3 scientists and all 3 top labs that have built the tech you are referring too. It's unanimous. Sources: h-index of AI rankings LLM rankings Everyone can look them up and what their stance is.
- staticman2 2y ago
  We don't let private companies own nuclear weapons, yet somehow these razzle dazzle claims of OpenAI's nuclear capabilities are never followed by "so nationalize OpenAI".
- smt88 2y ago
  No credible AI expert thinks LLMs will lead to AGI. They are hilariously bad at most things and heavily dependent on questionable data sources like reddit.
  - soraminazuki 2y ago
    AI don't need to be competent to cause harm, just like humans. Just ask law enforcement arresting people because their face recognition AI told them to. Not that I trust governments trying to oversee them either...
- darby_nine 2y ago
  If you swap out superintelligence with the market we're long past the point of no return. I don't see how ai could be any worse.

boomboomsubban 2y ago

Ex director of the NSA, but to be fair it has been a whole four months since then. What are the chances he still has connections with the agency?

markus_zhang 2y ago
Definitely zero.
- benopal64 2y ago
  Yeah, they brain-wipe you after you leave the NSA /s
manquer 2y ago
Or rather that agency has still connections to him
Ntrails 2y ago
> What are the chances he still has connections with the agency? Inconceivable
red_admiral 2y ago
Part of Snowden's explanation for why he was doing NSA work as a BAH contractor was that this is perfectly normal: employees "leave" and are then employed as contractors to get around limits on number and compensation for federal employees. Keeping their security clearances, of course.

karaterobot 2y ago

[eye twitching] ... Good. Everything's so good.

JohnFen 2y ago

It looks to me like a sign that OpenAI is getting more comfortable with revealing their true colors.

WiSaGaN 2y ago

Google, Facebook already have signifiant number of "disinformation staff" from US security state. As another big tech firm that collects huge amount of info and get to decide what to present to the general public, it has be added to that list as well.