5 ms·

The legal (il)literacy on HN is astounding. The punishment isn't a fine, it's a civil judgment being awarded to the eight Colombian families that sued... this i

The legal (il)literacy on HN is astounding. The punishment isn't a fine, it's a civil judgment being awarded to the eight Colombian families that sued... this is the third paragraph in the article: "Following a civil case brought by eight Colombian families whose relatives were killed by the AUC, Chiquita has been ordered to pay $38.3m (£30m) in damages to the families."

whateveracct 2y ago
people here don't RTFA when there'a juicy contrarian stuff to say instead
- freejazz 2y ago
  Yes, but I also consistently seeing people refer to anything resulting from a court case (criminal or civil) as a "fine".
  - swores 2y ago
    Because in non-legalise common English usage, "fine" just means "financial (usually) penalty for wrongdoing". A civil lawsuit doesn't need to be anything like a speeding ticket from a legal point of view, from a normal person's point of view they can both result in a "you did something wrong, now you have to pay an amount set by the legal system".
    - freejazz 2y ago
      They mistake the civil legal system for a fine imposed by the gov't, no need to be. obtuse about it.
      - swores 2y ago
        Yes, people make mistakes, especially when common usage of a word like "fine" doesn't align precisely with legal use. In my opinion it's getting upset about not everyone having a concrete understanding of the legal system that there's no need for.
        freejazz 2y ago
        Where's the discontinuity, they just assume everything that happens in court is the result of actions by the gov't when it's not just true. I don't get your tone, as if people making mistakes is a concept I'm not familiar with. That's not what I'm discussing, I'm discussing widely made mistaken assumptions from an otherwise incredulous crowd.
        diputsmonro 2y ago
        Generally, it's a distinction without a meaningful difference. The people you're complaining about don't really care whether or not it's government or civil action. They care that these people are getting away with murder and mass extortion and the only penalty they face is a meager chunk of the profits. I'm glad that some victims are getting some recompense, but frankly, justice has not really been served.
        freejazz 2y ago
        > Generally, it's a distinction without a meaningful difference. Seems like you might be as confused as they are! > The people you're complaining about don't really care whether or not it's government or civil action. They do, because it's always in the context of how the "gov't" levied a fine on some business, when it was actually a civil suit and there's no governmental action at all. > They care that these people are getting away with murder and mass extortion and the only penalty they face is a meager chunk of the profits. That's not what I'm talking about!
        swores 2y ago
        My feeling is that you're the one confused with what other people think and care about, not the other way around. I'll leave it there and agree to disagree, as you've been ignoring the points made by both of us who replied to you.
        freejazz 2y ago

whateveracct 2y ago

people here don't RTFA when there'a juicy contrarian stuff to say instead

freejazz 2y ago
Yes, but I also consistently seeing people refer to anything resulting from a court case (criminal or civil) as a "fine".
- swores 2y ago
  Because in non-legalise common English usage, "fine" just means "financial (usually) penalty for wrongdoing". A civil lawsuit doesn't need to be anything like a speeding ticket from a legal point of view, from a normal person's point of view they can both result in a "you did something wrong, now you have to pay an amount set by the legal system".
  - freejazz 2y ago
    They mistake the civil legal system for a fine imposed by the gov't, no need to be. obtuse about it.
    - swores 2y ago
      Yes, people make mistakes, especially when common usage of a word like "fine" doesn't align precisely with legal use. In my opinion it's getting upset about not everyone having a concrete understanding of the legal system that there's no need for.
      - freejazz 2y ago
        Where's the discontinuity, they just assume everything that happens in court is the result of actions by the gov't when it's not just true. I don't get your tone, as if people making mistakes is a concept I'm not familiar with. That's not what I'm discussing, I'm discussing widely made mistaken assumptions from an otherwise incredulous crowd.
        diputsmonro 2y ago
        Generally, it's a distinction without a meaningful difference. The people you're complaining about don't really care whether or not it's government or civil action. They care that these people are getting away with murder and mass extortion and the only penalty they face is a meager chunk of the profits. I'm glad that some victims are getting some recompense, but frankly, justice has not really been served.
        freejazz 2y ago
        > Generally, it's a distinction without a meaningful difference. Seems like you might be as confused as they are! > The people you're complaining about don't really care whether or not it's government or civil action. They do, because it's always in the context of how the "gov't" levied a fine on some business, when it was actually a civil suit and there's no governmental action at all. > They care that these people are getting away with murder and mass extortion and the only penalty they face is a meager chunk of the profits. That's not what I'm talking about!
        swores 2y ago
        My feeling is that you're the one confused with what other people think and care about, not the other way around. I'll leave it there and agree to disagree, as you've been ignoring the points made by both of us who replied to you.
        freejazz 2y ago