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It's more how little the Frankfurt stock Exchange is worth. And European devs keep wondering why our wages are lower than in the US for the same work. That's wh

It's more how little the Frankfurt stock Exchange is worth. And European devs keep wondering why our wages are lower than in the US for the same work. That's why.

raverbashing 2y ago
Yes But there's a long list of German companies not on the DAX (though Germany DAX really deserves to be worth less than NVidia)
- earthnail 2y ago
  The DAX is made of the 40 most valuable German companies. That’s how it is defined. So the companies not in it, again by definition, matter less.
  - qsi 2y ago
    The CDAX index has about 360 companies and appears to have a market cap of around 2 trillion EUR vs 1.7 trillion for the DAX 40.
  - pell 2y ago
    > The DAX is made of the 40 most valuable German companies. Not to be too nitpicky here but these are only the publicly traded companies. You have a number of pretty large German companies that are still entirely private such as Aldi, Schwarz Group, Boehringer or Bosch.
    - bigfudge 2y ago
      Also many medium sized companies which are productive and competitive but not public, so never grow to huge sizes. I view this as a feature not a bug… smaller companies have a more direct connection with their workforce and tend to behave better with them.
  - dukeyukey 2y ago
    No it isn't? It's the list of the biggest blue-chip Germany-HQ'd companies trading on the Frankfurt Stock Exchange. If you're a German company with exclusively German employees trading in London, or Paris, or New York, you don't qualify.
  - raverbashing 2y ago
    > DAX is made of the 40 most valuable *listed* German companies https://www.famcap.com/top-500-german-family-businesses-the-economy-most-dependent-on-family-enterprises/ https://www.famcap.com/top-500-german-family-businesses-the-... Not all of those are listed, or listed in Frankfurt
CapeTheory 2y ago
The DAX is only 40 companies, most of which make real products rather than advertising mechanisms. Making real physical things just doesn't scale, and never will. While I would enjoy a US tech salary, I'm not sure we want a world where all manufacturing is set aside to focus on the attention economy. Nvidia value deserves to be much higher than any company on the DAX (maybe all of them together, as it currently is) - but how much of that current value is real rather than an AI speculation bubble?
- B1FF_PSUVM 2y ago
  > Making real physical things just doesn't scale, Nvidia sells chips ...
  - chad1n 2y ago
    Investors don't even know what NVIDIA is selling, I was listening to a random investor podcast and they were talking about Intel, AMD and NVIDIA, but no one knew what exactly they are selling, they only knew they are part of this AI bubble so that's why you should invest in them
    - petra 2y ago
      What about seroous analysts, say like morningstar, don't the undedtand the business that they recommended relatively well?
  - CapeTheory 2y ago
    They can't make them fast enough to satisfy hype-driven demand; they are not scaling like a tech company, but their market cap is being inflated like one.
    - lucianbr 2y ago
      What is the meaning of "tech" in this context? "Software"? I mean, if Nvidia isn't a technology company...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dailykoder 2y ago
Okay, so you are saying I should move to america, where apparently a lot of people struggle hard to even get a job? Nah, then ill get my very good wagie pennies here and have plenty jobs available, plus good health insurrance and whatnot.
- dash2 2y ago
  German unemployment is 3.2%. US unemployment is 4.0%. Neither of these are at all high by historical standards. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2024/06/PE24_217_132.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2024/06/PE24_217_132.html
  - dailykoder 2y ago
    Sure, and I can only judge from what I'm hearing, but the internet does make it sounds like it's very hard to find programming jobs as a graduate or junior. I don't know what the truth is. Maybe it's just a minority crying out loud because they don't get hired at FAANG.
  - jangxx 2y ago
    Don't forget to take both of those stats with a grain of salt though. The US has a lot of gig workers which are not always counted correctly or the same and Germany has a large low-wage sector, where people are employed but earn less per month that they would get in unemployment benefits, and so the state pays the difference.
- ptero 2y ago
  That is a perfectly reasonable approach. On the other side, working in the tech on the US salary, if not blown on luxurious lifestyle, gives one a good chance of quickly reaching financial semi-independence (say, 3 years of full living expenses in the bank), which can be a powerful feature. My 2c.
  - drawback 2y ago
    Or do both, work for a US company remotely. Most large ones even have an entity in the larger EU countries that can employ you with all the benefits of being an EU employee. They might not pay the exact same as in the US but still considerably above market rate.
braiamp 2y ago
Wages is a proxy of how valuable your work is, but not a measure of how value your work is. To support a high salary something has to happen, either the product sold is very expensive or it's being subsidized by investors. No company can pay its employees above what they are able to generate selling the product they worked on indefinitely.
Refusing23 2y ago
stock value doesnt reflect a company's income or ability to pay their workers

It's more how little the Frankfurt stock Exchange is worth. And European devs keep wondering why our wages are lower than in the US for the same work. That's why.

raverbashing 2y ago

Yes But there's a long list of German companies not on the DAX (though Germany DAX really deserves to be worth less than NVidia)

earthnail 2y ago
The DAX is made of the 40 most valuable German companies. That’s how it is defined. So the companies not in it, again by definition, matter less.
- qsi 2y ago
  The CDAX index has about 360 companies and appears to have a market cap of around 2 trillion EUR vs 1.7 trillion for the DAX 40.
- pell 2y ago
  > The DAX is made of the 40 most valuable German companies. Not to be too nitpicky here but these are only the publicly traded companies. You have a number of pretty large German companies that are still entirely private such as Aldi, Schwarz Group, Boehringer or Bosch.
  - bigfudge 2y ago
    Also many medium sized companies which are productive and competitive but not public, so never grow to huge sizes. I view this as a feature not a bug… smaller companies have a more direct connection with their workforce and tend to behave better with them.
- dukeyukey 2y ago
  No it isn't? It's the list of the biggest blue-chip Germany-HQ'd companies trading on the Frankfurt Stock Exchange. If you're a German company with exclusively German employees trading in London, or Paris, or New York, you don't qualify.
- raverbashing 2y ago
  > DAX is made of the 40 most valuable *listed* German companies https://www.famcap.com/top-500-german-family-businesses-the-economy-most-dependent-on-family-enterprises/ https://www.famcap.com/top-500-german-family-businesses-the-... Not all of those are listed, or listed in Frankfurt

CapeTheory 2y ago

The DAX is only 40 companies, most of which make real products rather than advertising mechanisms. Making real physical things just doesn't scale, and never will. While I would enjoy a US tech salary, I'm not sure we want a world where all manufacturing is set aside to focus on the attention economy. Nvidia value deserves to be much higher than any company on the DAX (maybe all of them together, as it currently is) - but how much of that current value is real rather than an AI speculation bubble?

B1FF_PSUVM 2y ago
> Making real physical things just doesn't scale, Nvidia sells chips ...
- chad1n 2y ago
  Investors don't even know what NVIDIA is selling, I was listening to a random investor podcast and they were talking about Intel, AMD and NVIDIA, but no one knew what exactly they are selling, they only knew they are part of this AI bubble so that's why you should invest in them
  - petra 2y ago
    What about seroous analysts, say like morningstar, don't the undedtand the business that they recommended relatively well?
- CapeTheory 2y ago
  They can't make them fast enough to satisfy hype-driven demand; they are not scaling like a tech company, but their market cap is being inflated like one.
  - lucianbr 2y ago
    What is the meaning of "tech" in this context? "Software"? I mean, if Nvidia isn't a technology company...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

dailykoder 2y ago

Okay, so you are saying I should move to america, where apparently a lot of people struggle hard to even get a job? Nah, then ill get my very good wagie pennies here and have plenty jobs available, plus good health insurrance and whatnot.

dash2 2y ago
German unemployment is 3.2%. US unemployment is 4.0%. Neither of these are at all high by historical standards. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2024/06/PE24_217_132.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2024/06/PE24_217_132.html
- dailykoder 2y ago
  Sure, and I can only judge from what I'm hearing, but the internet does make it sounds like it's very hard to find programming jobs as a graduate or junior. I don't know what the truth is. Maybe it's just a minority crying out loud because they don't get hired at FAANG.
- jangxx 2y ago
  Don't forget to take both of those stats with a grain of salt though. The US has a lot of gig workers which are not always counted correctly or the same and Germany has a large low-wage sector, where people are employed but earn less per month that they would get in unemployment benefits, and so the state pays the difference.
ptero 2y ago
That is a perfectly reasonable approach. On the other side, working in the tech on the US salary, if not blown on luxurious lifestyle, gives one a good chance of quickly reaching financial semi-independence (say, 3 years of full living expenses in the bank), which can be a powerful feature. My 2c.
- drawback 2y ago
  Or do both, work for a US company remotely. Most large ones even have an entity in the larger EU countries that can employ you with all the benefits of being an EU employee. They might not pay the exact same as in the US but still considerably above market rate.

braiamp 2y ago

Wages is a proxy of how valuable your work is, but not a measure of how value your work is. To support a high salary something has to happen, either the product sold is very expensive or it's being subsidized by investors. No company can pay its employees above what they are able to generate selling the product they worked on indefinitely.

Refusing23 2y ago

stock value doesnt reflect a company's income or ability to pay their workers