7 ms·
Martin-Baker Ejection Seat Made Its First of 7,722 Saves 75 Years Ago Today
- echelon 2y agoOver 100 successful ejections per year? That's wild! That sounds like an awful lot of hull losses. And how many people weren't saved? What's the risk calculus look like for a plane with an ejection seat vs. a plane without one? War obviously has one risk profile, but military vehicles and their operation differ wildly from day to day commercial operation.
- taspeotis 2y agoProbably some years with much higher numbers due to wars that would skew the average.
- netsharc 2y agoI thought they have a monopoly on ejection seats, but I've found at least 1 other manufacturer: https://www.collinsaerospace.com/what-we-do/industries/military-and-defense/interiors/aces-5-next-generation-ejection-seat https://www.collinsaerospace.com/what-we-do/industries/milit... Martin Baker's website is a bit wild, you can join their "tie club", but to do so you need to have ejected using their seat: https://martin-baker.com/tie-club/ https://martin-baker.com/tie-club/ And they list the ejections they know of https://martin-baker.com/ejection-notices/ https://martin-baker.com/ejection-notices/ , but the records are a bit jumbled, the latest entries include ejections in the past that they've discovered, and they don't all have dates, even "Someone successfully ejected today". Today when, man?!
- fckgw 2y agoYou can even buy a special watch with colored case that signifies you ejected from an aircraft (using a Martin-Baker Ejection Seat of course) https://martin-baker.com/watches/mb-i/ https://martin-baker.com/watches/mb-i/
- LandR 2y agoI collect watches, I'd love to have one of these but they are probably super rare to find second hand. Obviously I'd never be in a position to buy one from retail... There are a couple of pretty special pilot only watches. I like IWCs top gun too, the one with the real top-gun logo on only avialable to pilots that have graduated Top Gun. Available to top gun graduates: https://www.iwc.com/content/iwc/americas/us/en/articles/journal/top-gun-edition-sfti/jcr:content/par/image_112559816.img.png/1648713954065.png https://www.iwc.com/content/iwc/americas/us/en/articles/jour... The retail version: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.watchesworld.com%2Fshop%2Fiwc-pilots-mark-xviii-top-gun-edition-sfti-41mm-110448%2F&psig=AOvVaw25pP1-fIjlYwdVL4hzCzSD&ust=1718361676626000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBIQjRxqFwoTCLjRlqqy2IYDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAJ https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.watche... The people that actually get these watches don't seem to want to sell them, understandably.
- netsharc 2y agoAnd since these companies probably don't sell to Russia, Russia has their own manufacturer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPP_Zvezda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPP_Zvezda . Interestingly Collins' origin seem to be seats designed by Zvezda: https://archive.is/www.nytimes.com/1998/12/02/nyregion/metro-business-new-factory-to-use-russian-technology.html https://archive.is/www.nytimes.com/1998/12/02/nyregion/metro...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- quink 2y agoThe Collins equivalent seems to be the "Grasshopper Club": https://www.collinsaerospace.com/what-we-do/industries/military-and-defense/interiors/aces-5-next-generation-ejection-seat/grasshopper-club https://www.collinsaerospace.com/what-we-do/industries/milit... They mention the B-2 as a platform, that one was the most expensive aircraft crash in history according to Wikipedia.
- Iwan-Zotow 2y ago> found at least 1 other manufacturer that's Zvezda K-36
- Ichthypresbyter 2y ago>Over 100 successful ejections per year? That's wild! That sounds like an awful lot of hull losses. I remember calculating a few years ago that more than 10% of the ejector seats sold by Martin-Baker have been used to eject. Military aircraft operations, even in peacetime, are much more dangerous than the vast majority of civilian fixed-wing flight (except airshows/racing and maybe cropdusting). I don't know how much of that difference is the flight profile being inherently more dangerous (closer to terrain), and how much is it being harder on the aircraft.
- throwup238 2y agoThey're more dangerous mostly because they're optimized for maneuverability which requires trading off aerodynamic stability and glide ratio. All aircraft have problems mid-flight and most pilot training is about how to deal with that but when something goes wrong, fighter jets just don't have much time to recover before they plummet. That maneuverability also makes it a lot easier to get disoriented and lose control. Trainer jets like the L39 albatross have a less maneuverable design in exchange for being a lot more survivable in event of a problem. The engines themselves aren't that much less reliable - some engines like the Garrett TFE731 have a TBO of 4,000 hours which is significantly more than many GA engines like the Continental in an entry level Cessna.
- shiroiushi 2y ago>some engines like the Garrett TFE731 have a TBO of 4,000 hours which is significantly more than many GA engines like the Continental in an entry level Cessna. That shouldn't be a big surprise: jet engines are turbines with basically only one moving part that just spins, whereas those crappy GA engines are reciprocating piston engines with designs that haven't changed since the 1950s.
- tialaramex 2y agoThis incredible reliability is the justification for TOPS and ETOPS policy in which suitably qualified aeroplanes with only two jet engines are allowed to fly over an ocean. Before TOPS this is why you see jet aeroplanes with three engines, they don't need three engines to fly, but the regulations required that if two engines fail the plane must get to safety, with TOPS that's no longer required (hence the joke expansion for ETOPS: Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim) and so new planes with three engines didn't make sense. With piston engines two engines failing is a completely reasonable thing which will sometimes happen to say, a transatlantic flight. In the early days of such travel, the demands are such that all the practical aeroplanes are four engine models anyway, so limping to an abort airfield on two engines was a reasonable strategy if two failed, but once jet engines on passenger planes were a thing, their enormous reliability makes this unnecessary hence TOPS and then ETOPS.
- CapitalistCartr 2y agoWhen I was in USAF, the pilots said, "When your fear of staying in the plane exceeds your fear of the ejection system, it's time to eject." That wasn't really a joke.
- lukan 2y agoSince even a successful ejection will hurt you due to the immense forces at play (an explosion will push you out the plane) even in the best case, and crush you, if something goes wrong, no wonder that joke is for real.
- wrp 2y agoI've seen comparisons of American vs. Russian ejector seats. It appears that Russian seats are better designed to protect the pilot from injury while ejecting. The issue of ejector seats has been used to support the idea that pilot comfort and safety is a low priority for American designers.
- 0_____0 2y agoDo the Russians have zero-zero systems? I know the US seats have started taking into account pilot weight to modulate thrust to limit the Gs to what is necessary
- dralley 2y agoThey had those a long time ago. One of the few parts of their airplanes that was actually quite good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jklGQxAOoo8&t=9m45s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jklGQxAOoo8&t=9m45s
- numpad0 2y agoSoviet designs tend to be more artisanal. Sometimes it gives them oxygen-rich rocket engines and better engineered ejection seats, other times it malfunctions and flip over ISS or send a space probe back down to earth by accidentally cryogenically freezing out a computer.
- 2y ago
- throwup238 2y agoMilitary trainer jets have two seats so most crashes count for two ejections. Martin Baker has been fitted into 200 different aircraft types in 90 countries so averaged out that's only 0.5-1 hulls lost per customer per year.
- thsksbd 2y agoThat includes the Vietnam and Korean wars - lots of pilots got shot down
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- simple10 2y agoHere's an interesting old training video from the RAF that shows the details of how the ejection seat works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU7A2Q9sSCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU7A2Q9sSCw
- Daviey 2y agoThis was a wonderful video in a style I sorely miss (not the QT, but the 1980/90's RAF and Public Information style).
- ubermonkey 2y ago"Ejector seat? You're joking." "I never joke about my work, 007."
- ctippett 2y agoI don't know if it was a Martin-Baker ejection seat, but this pilot's account of surviving an ejection from 78,000 ft at Mach 3.18 (3926,664 km/h!) in a SR-71 Blackbird is pretty wild. http://www.chuckyeager.org/news/sr-71-disintegrated-pilot-free-fell-space-lived-tell/ http://www.chuckyeager.org/news/sr-71-disintegrated-pilot-fr...
- MobileVet 2y agoThanks for the link, that was a great read! What a story. Minor nit pick, the pilot did not in fact eject. He was literally thrown out of the disintegrating aircraft, ripping his shoulder and waist harnesses in the process. Insane stuff, especially that he survived.
- spanktheuser 2y agoMy dad used to know a marine fighter pilot who survived an ejection at mach 1.2. Each leg broke in four places and the soles of feet were pressed flat against his chest hard enough to break many of his ribs. But the seat worked and was certainly responsible for saving his life.
- simonswords82 2y agoI'm having a hard time imagining how the bottom of his feet were pressed against his chest?! Were his knees bent the wrong way?
- nicerob2010 2y agoI'm guessing that has to do with his legs being broken in four places
- netsharc 2y agoA quick search suggests the SR-71 had Lockheed-designed seats.
- 2y ago
- zabzonk 2y agounfortunately, one killed an RAF Red Arrows pilot at RAF Scampton when it activated unexpectedly - but this is very rare in the history of the seats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sean_Cunningham https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sean_Cunningham
- ugh123 2y agoWhen can we have ejector seats for commercial airplane cabins. Or.. "ejector cabins"?
- iancmceachern 2y agoWe have "ballistic recovery systems" that are basically giant parachutes for entire (small) aircraft
- ugh123 2y agoI've seen those for very small one-man drones. Are you talking about Cessna-size?
- iancmceachern 2y agoYes, they even come standard on some planes, like on all Cirrus SR planes.
- tialaramex 2y agoCAPS: Cirrus Airframe Parachute System. Realistically it's not practical to retro-fit this technology, so you would almost invariably buy a plane with it. Cirrus also solves the other problem that's of growing importance in the US with increasingly elderly private pilots - what if your plane is fine but the pilot is incapacitated (e.g. stroke)? Emergency autoland means the plane itself is capable of determining a suitable landing site, navigating there, broadcasting its intentions to other aircraft and landing, then switching itself off, meaning the passengers (and possibly the pilot depending on what exactly was wrong) survive the incident.
- iancmceachern 2y agoIt is realistic to retrofit, and it's done regularly: https://www.aviationconsumer.com/safety/brs-parachute-retrofits-a-cost-benefit-analysis/ https://www.aviationconsumer.com/safety/brs-parachute-retrof...
- johnea 2y agoImagine just how many more could have been saved if we just stopped bombarding each other for profit?
- ldmosquera 2y agoThis pilot's account of ejecting underwater (!!) after a failed carrier landing is truly amazing: https://www.ejectionsite.com/eunderh2o.htm https://www.ejectionsite.com/eunderh2o.htm
- echoangle 2y agoThere’s also this video about under water ejection: https://youtu.be/CfVKUdA433Q https://youtu.be/CfVKUdA433Q
- soared 2y agoThe old factory is now kind of like a new-age mall with small stores, good restaurants, bars, etc outside of Denver. Very cool spot.
- MountainArras 2y ago[dead]
- jimbobthrowawy 2y agoDon't know if other manufacturers do it, but Martin-Baker give you a branded tie if your life is saved by one of their seats. It's covered in logos that look like the ejection handle.
- linker3000 2y agoUsed MB ejection seats were re-used in flight sims. When I worked in the industry (electronics eng), I saw one in either a Jaguar or Tornado sim under construction and it had a brass plaque on the side naming the pilot and day of activation, along the lines of "On [DATE], [PILOT], ejected safely from their aircraft in this seat."
- dustincoates 2y agoYou also have a right to buy a watch from Bremont: https://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2015-05-13/eject-from-plane-for-right-to-wear-bremont-watch https://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2015-05-13/eject-from-pla...