7 ms·

No details on why the Android stack is somehow more magical for AI? ... Or did they just fire all the ChromeOS devs and need to share resources with Android now

No details on why the Android stack is somehow more magical for AI? ... Or did they just fire all the ChromeOS devs and need to share resources with Android now? Why not Fuscia for something new?

eco 2y ago
Probably more of an internal mandate that everything needs to consider how it can integrate/improve on AI so they included some lip service in case a VP reads this.
joseda-hg 2y ago
I thought Fuchsia was the one that got hit with the larger cuts?
- surajrmal 2y ago
  While true it wasn't as large as folks seem to imply.
summerlight 2y ago
Probably CrOS team doesn't have enough manpower to implement necessary local ML infrastructure and want to borrow Android's. Or at least they're using this as an excuse for paying off long standing organizational tech debts.
refulgentis 2y ago
Wrote a comment a week or two ago on this you might be interested in: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40580163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40580163 TL;DR: Google is consolidating behind the whims of the hardware org, which are orthogonal to OS' that can't ship (what ppl outside Google call Fuschsia), and here, OS' that can't sell premium 1st party hardware. The old platform org head left recently, combine that with the CEO's eagerness to display Efficiency™ and the lack of interest the CEO has in practical work, that means VP shuffle people around to keep constant/shrinking headcount and the CEO loves it.
- kernal 2y ago
  Fuchsia has already shipped. It's also called Fuchsia internally.
  - refulgentis 2y ago
    Let's not be obtuse -- if you're familiar with internal info on this, you should/could understand exactly what I'm talking about. If you're just trying to do a drive-by dunk about spelling, and just thought it was cute to add on "internal" while doing so...more power to you, I guess.
    - kernal 2y ago
      Considering how you mangled the name of the OS, I have a hard believing you're remotely familiar with the internals of Fuchsia.
      - refulgentis 2y ago
        Yes, there's an extra S in Fuchsia so I'm 3 trolls in a trench coat pretending to be me. I hope your day gets better! However you're feeling, it's temporary, it's not worth trolling and doing a know-nothing thing in public, it's too demeaning to yourself. People can see my comment, profile, and site, and then see you're completely anonymous. Then they're left with either: A) you're so hung up on an extra S you're lying on purpose B) you're a vindictive liar: you don't care enough to find out who I am, even though it's right in my profile, but you do care enough to pretend it's unknowable or C) youre having some sort of psychotic break from reality
        kernal 2y ago
        You seem to be very troubled to resort to such childish attacks because my opinion differs from yours. You've presented no evidence that you have any internal knowledge of Fuchsia.
        2y ago
dudus 2y ago
> To continue rolling out new Google AI features to users at a faster and even larger scale, we’ll be embracing portions of the Android stack Because they are panicking and need to add AI faster than Apple and Microsoft across their whole portfolio.
ndesaulniers 2y ago
More so Android and ChromeOS both use Linux as the kernel. They actually have a lot in common in terms of tech stack.
- qalmakka 2y ago
  They use two completely different libc though, which are binary incompatible (bionic and glibc).
  - ndesaulniers 2y ago
    How many web apps running on CrOS care what libc the system is using?
oliwarner 2y ago
It's amazing what a FAANG with tens of thousands of software developers cannot achieve.
- nashashmi 2y ago
  That is the reason they cannot achieve it. Territorial claims and wars. Group and team efforts. leadership buy in. the more money those guys are paid, the less team works they produce.
aixpert 2y ago
As I wrote above, A big advantage of Android is the implementation of intents (also compared to Apples new crippled intents API), which may turn out to become the deciding factor in the race towards the winning AI Agent OS, as it may enable AI to use programs programmatically
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
Fuchsia is still under development? I haven't heard anything from it in forever, and it's been going for a long time now.
- serial_dev 2y ago
  It looks like it is, see multiple commits today: https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/fuchsia/ https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/fuchsia/ As building an OS is no simple task, this all could mean nothing and the project might be heading to the graveyard slowly. I noticed the same, too, it was hyped as the next OS now about a decade ago, and it doesn't look like it will be a significant player any time soon. I assume it's still in the evaluation, prototype phase, probably tons of issues. I heard here and there that some exotic glorified home tablet thingy is running it, but I don't think you can really go to a local consumer electronics store and find something with Fuchsia running on it.
  - vitno 2y ago
    There are multiple devices that have shipped with Fuchsia on it in the home ecosystem over the last 5 years. I don't necessarily think it's going to be a major success, but it's already been more successful than this implies. (Bias, was on the Fuchsia team many moons ago)
    - serial_dev 2y ago
      It might be your bias, or even mine, but in my opinion, what you and I are saying are pretty much the same... There is not much actual difference between "I heard here and there that some exotic glorified home tablet thingy is running it" and "There are multiple devices that have shipped with Fuchsia on it in the home ecosystem over the last 5 years". Would love to hear where it was actually used, searching for it, I really only found a handful of examples. I was an active Flutter community member and it was driving me crazy how people would say "Flutter is great because Fuchsia also uses Flutter", and all I thought "show me one person who is using Fuchsia at this whole conference / meetup".
joecot 2y ago
A while back they were privately demoing ChromeOS alongside android on phones to enable a better desktop experience. They're also enabling display port on the new Pixel. My guess is they are making ChromeOS more like Android to make that process easier.

No details on why the Android stack is somehow more magical for AI? ... Or did they just fire all the ChromeOS devs and need to share resources with Android now? Why not Fuscia for something new?

eco 2y ago

Probably more of an internal mandate that everything needs to consider how it can integrate/improve on AI so they included some lip service in case a VP reads this.

joseda-hg 2y ago

I thought Fuchsia was the one that got hit with the larger cuts?

surajrmal 2y ago
While true it wasn't as large as folks seem to imply.

summerlight 2y ago

Probably CrOS team doesn't have enough manpower to implement necessary local ML infrastructure and want to borrow Android's. Or at least they're using this as an excuse for paying off long standing organizational tech debts.

refulgentis 2y ago

Wrote a comment a week or two ago on this you might be interested in: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40580163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40580163 TL;DR: Google is consolidating behind the whims of the hardware org, which are orthogonal to OS' that can't ship (what ppl outside Google call Fuschsia), and here, OS' that can't sell premium 1st party hardware. The old platform org head left recently, combine that with the CEO's eagerness to display Efficiency™ and the lack of interest the CEO has in practical work, that means VP shuffle people around to keep constant/shrinking headcount and the CEO loves it.

kernal 2y ago
Fuchsia has already shipped. It's also called Fuchsia internally.
- refulgentis 2y ago
  Let's not be obtuse -- if you're familiar with internal info on this, you should/could understand exactly what I'm talking about. If you're just trying to do a drive-by dunk about spelling, and just thought it was cute to add on "internal" while doing so...more power to you, I guess.
  - kernal 2y ago
    Considering how you mangled the name of the OS, I have a hard believing you're remotely familiar with the internals of Fuchsia.
    - refulgentis 2y ago
      Yes, there's an extra S in Fuchsia so I'm 3 trolls in a trench coat pretending to be me. I hope your day gets better! However you're feeling, it's temporary, it's not worth trolling and doing a know-nothing thing in public, it's too demeaning to yourself. People can see my comment, profile, and site, and then see you're completely anonymous. Then they're left with either: A) you're so hung up on an extra S you're lying on purpose B) you're a vindictive liar: you don't care enough to find out who I am, even though it's right in my profile, but you do care enough to pretend it's unknowable or C) youre having some sort of psychotic break from reality
      - kernal 2y ago
        You seem to be very troubled to resort to such childish attacks because my opinion differs from yours. You've presented no evidence that you have any internal knowledge of Fuchsia.
        2y ago

dudus 2y ago

> To continue rolling out new Google AI features to users at a faster and even larger scale, we’ll be embracing portions of the Android stack Because they are panicking and need to add AI faster than Apple and Microsoft across their whole portfolio.

ndesaulniers 2y ago

More so Android and ChromeOS both use Linux as the kernel. They actually have a lot in common in terms of tech stack.

qalmakka 2y ago
They use two completely different libc though, which are binary incompatible (bionic and glibc).
- ndesaulniers 2y ago
  How many web apps running on CrOS care what libc the system is using?

oliwarner 2y ago

It's amazing what a FAANG with tens of thousands of software developers cannot achieve.

nashashmi 2y ago
That is the reason they cannot achieve it. Territorial claims and wars. Group and team efforts. leadership buy in. the more money those guys are paid, the less team works they produce.

aixpert 2y ago

As I wrote above, A big advantage of Android is the implementation of intents (also compared to Apples new crippled intents API), which may turn out to become the deciding factor in the race towards the winning AI Agent OS, as it may enable AI to use programs programmatically

Cthulhu_ 2y ago

Fuchsia is still under development? I haven't heard anything from it in forever, and it's been going for a long time now.

serial_dev 2y ago
It looks like it is, see multiple commits today: https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/fuchsia/ https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/fuchsia/ As building an OS is no simple task, this all could mean nothing and the project might be heading to the graveyard slowly. I noticed the same, too, it was hyped as the next OS now about a decade ago, and it doesn't look like it will be a significant player any time soon. I assume it's still in the evaluation, prototype phase, probably tons of issues. I heard here and there that some exotic glorified home tablet thingy is running it, but I don't think you can really go to a local consumer electronics store and find something with Fuchsia running on it.
- vitno 2y ago
  There are multiple devices that have shipped with Fuchsia on it in the home ecosystem over the last 5 years. I don't necessarily think it's going to be a major success, but it's already been more successful than this implies. (Bias, was on the Fuchsia team many moons ago)
  - serial_dev 2y ago
    It might be your bias, or even mine, but in my opinion, what you and I are saying are pretty much the same... There is not much actual difference between "I heard here and there that some exotic glorified home tablet thingy is running it" and "There are multiple devices that have shipped with Fuchsia on it in the home ecosystem over the last 5 years". Would love to hear where it was actually used, searching for it, I really only found a handful of examples. I was an active Flutter community member and it was driving me crazy how people would say "Flutter is great because Fuchsia also uses Flutter", and all I thought "show me one person who is using Fuchsia at this whole conference / meetup".

joecot 2y ago

A while back they were privately demoing ChromeOS alongside android on phones to enable a better desktop experience. They're also enabling display port on the new Pixel. My guess is they are making ChromeOS more like Android to make that process easier.