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Study shows N95 masks near-perfect at blocking escape of airborne Covid-19
- mozman 2y agoMore importantly, how’s it block the inhalation of covid?
- sofixa 2y agoWhy more importantly? For an airborne pandemic with very a long incubation period (if memory serves me right up to 2-3 weeks), lack of symptoms in many cases, preventing the spread is the number one priority on the level of a city/local/central government. Quarantines and lockdowns are good old tested ways, but infeasible for prolonged periods of time. Having everyone wear a mask and drastically reduce the spread was such a no brainer I never understood all the panic around it.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago"More importantly" because people seem to respond better to self-interest than they do to promoting the public good.
- lettergram 2y agoNot the original poster, but It’s probably more important because you can’t force people to wear masks. As such, the question is “can I protect myself?” If you can, there’s absolutely no reason to force other people to mask anyway & you get the same benefit. That’s the ideal situation for everyone.
- DonnyV 2y agoYeah, I mean its not like we live in a community or anything. I should be able to drive as fast as I want through school zones.
- thfuran 2y agoAs long as you have a sturdy SUV with a big steel grill on the front, I don't see the issue.
- tivert 2y ago> Not the original poster, but It’s probably more important because you can’t force people to wear masks. Why can't "you" force people to wear masks? Depending on exactly who you mean by "you" (the particular poster, an abstract actor (individual or organization), etc.), what you say could be true to mostly false.
- ycombobreaker 2y agoI can't speak for anyone else, but this can clearly be interpreted on a personal level. Every day I can do my best to influence public policy; but even if I am successful, a policy change takes time. In the meantime, I can decide whether I will wear a mask; but I cannot force any other person to wear a mask.
- mathstuf 2y ago> If you can, there’s absolutely no reason to force other people to mask anyway & you get the same benefit. Until the reaction is along the lines of "we're so afraid that people shouldn't be allowed to protect themselves": https://www.starnewsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/06/11/nc-mask-bill-passes-house-heads-to-gov-coopers-desk/74062229007/ https://www.starnewsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections...
- mathstuf 2y agoIt seems that since it was first reported, there is now an exception (in this instance at least) for those protecting themselves from communicable diseases.
- francisofascii 2y agoIt is a fair question for what one should do if healthy. Most people today are not wearing masks when sick. So how much protection does an N95 give us vs not wearing a mask at all? If we are healthy, should we bother with masks?
- buo 2y agoI am healthy, and intend to remain so -- I wear an N95 in all indoor spaces.
- throwaway48476 2y agoThe single best prevention for viruses is an adequate amount of quality sleep.
- sofixa 2y agoI'd love to see some research on how quality sleep helps with, say, Ebola.
- throwaway48476 2y agoSleep is primarily preventative, as it plays a role in the immune system. Personally, I haven't been sick in many years and when other people are getting sick I just get tired and sleep a few more hours than usual.
- luxuryballs 2y ago[flagged]
- avtar 2y agoIn countries where public healthcare is a thing, why wouldn’t trying to limit the spread of something like Covid (that would inundate healthcare facilities) be part of a government’s business?
- codr7 2y agoIt would, but forcing the people to do anything shouldn't.
- flawi 2y agoHow is ensuring the well-being of the people "not any of the governments business"? What other end goal could a government possibly serve?
- MrMan 2y ago[dead]
- throwaway48476 2y agoLots of things are bad for the well being of the people but the government allows it, such as smoking and drinking. The government serves the will of the people, not their well being.
- luxuryballs 2y agothat’s a big debate beyond the scope of this format but they at least should need to pass a law first before just taking power, otherwise you risk a situation where any time someone wants power they declare an emergency, or worse, cause one… imagine if they released a virus for example, knowing they can then shut down a society for whatever reason? it’s a real threat and shouldn’t be hand waved away in a time when powerful people openly claim the biggest threat to everyone is everyone
- harimau777 2y agoMuch of the US refuses to wear masks. If masks only prevent the virus escaping but not entering, then it is only the selfish segment of society that is being protected.
- matzab 2y ago> then it is only the selfish segment of society that is being protected But wouldn't that also protect the unselfish?
- dghughes 2y agoMasks aren't worn only by infected people they are worn to protect against the virus. The virus exists whether you choose to wear a mask or not. But masks prevent an infected person from spreading it from coughing or from non-infected people from breathing it in.
- bowsamic 2y agoThis is logically inconsistent
- harimau777 2y agoHow so?
- peeters 2y ago
- hurrdurr57 2y ago>I never understood all the panic around it I think a good chunk of it was the CDC randomly changing its recommendations with no real explanation. At the beginning of the pandemic in the US, from January to May of 2020, there was a big campaign by the CDC to discourage people from wearing masks. I remember seeing various guest "medical experts" on the news claiming that people who wore masks were actually MORE LIKELY to contract COVID. At the same time, virtually every other country was encouraging or mandating masking. Then June of 2020 came around, masks quickly became encouraged and then mandated. Fauci only made vague and nonsensical statements like "the science changed!" and "we're moving at the speed of science!" to explain the abrupt change in policy. As if there was ever any scientific data to suggest that COVID-19 was not capable of airborne transmission or that masks wouldn't help limit said transmission. I get that there was a shortage of masks early on and the CDC was probably just trying to prevent panic buying (which occurred anyway, there were N95s selling on amazon for $40 per mask). The ridiculous claim that "masks make you more likely to get COVID" followed by a sudden requirement to wear said "COVID causing" masks completely destroyed public confidence and fueled all kinds of conspiracy theories.
- vargr616 2y agoI saw people reuse the same mask for weeks, cloth or surgical. I think this is what some of the "experts" were referring to, that is even more dangerous than being maskless
- DiogenesKynikos 2y agoIf you read the scientific literature on masking (focused on a flu pandemic) from before the pandemic, there was actually a lot of uncertainty about whether masks would help the general public. It's obvious that masks help if they're worn correctly, but the uncertainty was around the question of whether the general public would actually wear them properly. In hindsight, it seems obvious that mask-wearing should have been encouraged from day 1, but it somehow wasn't initially clear. One problem, I think, might be the emphasis on controlled randomized trials (RCT) in medicine, which are not always appropriate. Think of running an RCT on whether parachutes prevent death when falling from planes. We understand the physical mechanism underlying parachutes, so we know mechanistically why they prevent death from falling. Covid is a respiratory virus. Masks physically filter the virus out of the air you breathe in and out. You don't need a study to know that if worn correctly, they will reduce transmission. The real question is how to teach and encourage the public to wear masks properly, not whether masks work in principle.
- InDubioProRubio 2y agoFor many ordinary citizens its just panic when asked to perform something not within the usual cultural norms. In japan this is normal behaviour, whenever you feel under the weather. Then there were obvious propaganda lies surrounding masks. One was that soldiers wear them- and i was a soldier, with a abc-mask and we "trained" marching with them and unscrewed them to get some air. Then some other world-unaware office worker suggested using them in freezers and cooled environments- which basically boils down to waterboarding yourself with condensing air-moisture. Good idea, pushed by panicy people into bad policy, communicated badly, resulting in massive resistance.
- veidr 2y agoLOL did you mean, "more selfishly"? Not trying to be snarky, tbh that is more important to me personally, too... but probably not in the broader sense...
- justin66 2y agoIt's not the sort of membrane that only works when air is flowing in one direction. It won't protect you from getting goober in your eyes, but when it comes to inhalation, N95 material is great. It also helps that N95 masks tend to have better nosewires for fit, and specify real head straps, which makes them practically more dependable than some masks like most KF94s.
- mitchbob 2y agoDiscussed recently (93 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40565561 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40565561
- robtherobber 2y agoThanks for that. Seems that I've missed it. I suppose this one can be removed.
- InsomniacL 2y ago@Dang the thread linked seems to be wrongly [Flagged]?
- daghamm 2y agoThis is more and more being abused to kill discussions people don't like. Seems like a vulnerability in the system.
- skygazer 2y agoArticles sometimes are flagged for poor or inflammatory content, but often it’s the uncivil squabbles that erupt in the comments for completely reasonable but somehow polarizing articles that triggers flagging. I think it’s seen as a regrettable cost of elevating civil discourse. Dang often appears early in such threads “don’t make me turn this car around”-ing, but his warnings are seldom heeded.
- jasonvorhe 2y ago[flagged]
- sofixa 2y agoDARPA I get, morally, but what's your issue with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation?
- salah7252 2y agoThey literally have invested in multiple private prisons lol, both of them.
- jasonvorhe 2y agoJust a small selection of suspicious activity: * https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/healthcare/biotech/healthcare/controversial-vaccine-studies-why-is-bill-melinda-gates-foundation-under-fire-from-critics-in-india/articleshow/41280050.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/healthcare/bio... * https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/08/09/430347033/catholic-bishops-in-kenya-call-for-a-boycott-of-polio-vaccines https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/08/09/4303470... * https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/a-mass-sterilization-exercise-kenyan-doctors-find-anti-fertility-agent-in-u/ https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/a-mass-sterilization-exerc... * https://thediplomat.com/2021/06/why-are-indians-so-angry-at-bill-gates/ https://thediplomat.com/2021/06/why-are-indians-so-angry-at-... * https://tpchronicles.com/un-vaccines-sterilize/ https://tpchronicles.com/un-vaccines-sterilize/
- ceejayoz 2y agoI tend to be a bit skeptical of Catholic bishops' opinion on scientific issues.
- spywaregorilla 2y agoThree of these appear to unsubstantiated claims from Keynan power grabs that well documented vaccines are causing sterilization. The vaccine mentioned in the first link is now massively widespread and attributed to saving 10,000,000 lives over the past decade
- karol 2y agoIn females :D (check study)
- DonnyV 2y agoYes because men breath differently then women. {eye roll}
- bluejekyll 2y agoTo be fair men in general are more likely to have facial hair. Facial hair absolutely impacts the effectiveness of masks.
- elric 2y agoFacial shape, size, and facial hair (as another commenter here already mentioned) can absolutely matter in mask fit and seal. This is a very common problem in CPAP masks, which use an inflated bladder to adjust to the face of shape. So I can't imagine this *not* being a problem in N95 masks which don't have a bladder but only an edge of slightly flexible material. And if we're being pedantic, men typicall have ~10% larger lung capacity than women, which may well have an impact on mask performance as well. So while the original commenter was factually incorrect, the concern doesn't seem terribly far fetched to me.
- n4r9 2y agoThe study says it had 44 volunteers, 43% of whom were female.
- ldehaan 2y ago[dead]
- stefantalpalaru 2y ago[dead]
- caleblloyd 2y agoIt always baffled me that the US government had a program to send everyone free COVID tests, but they didn’t have a program to send everyone free N95 masks, so we ended up wearing random materials that were far less effective. With all of the mandates to wear a mask everywhere I at least would have liked to wear one that worked well. You would have thought if they could produce 6 free tests per household per month, they could produce 6 free N95 masks per household per month.
- baryphonic 2y agoI guess Big Pharma was better at using lobbying dollars than Big Mask.
- addicted 2y agoThat’s because the U.S. population was strongly against masks. In the beginning the US public was strongly in favor of the vaccines. In fact the complaints were around the delay in vaccine availability and the way the rich and powerful could access them earlier. It was only in late 2021 where certain people realized vaccine skepticism was lucrative and the Republicans needed something to rile up their base for the upcoming elections did vaccine skepticism become a thing.
- padjo 2y agoIt’s truly insane that vaccine deniers are now voting for Trump, when he was the one to take credit for them in the first place (and perhaps with some small justification!)
- HumblyTossed 2y agoThese people have been exposed to too much PFAS or something. It's messed up their logical thinking capabilities.
- wannacboatmovie 2y ago> It was only in late 2021 where certain people realized vaccine skepticism was lucrative and the Republicans needed something to rile up their base for the upcoming elections did vaccine skepticism become a thing. This is revisionist history. I remember many Democrats being staunchly anti-"Trump's rushed vaccine" and it was only when their party came into power did they turn into human pincushions nearly overnight, "believing in science" and not being able to get enough jabs into them. The vaccines, of course, were one and the same.
- freitzkriesler2 2y agoAbout 3 to 4 years too late but cool to read nonetheless.
- ceejayoz 2y agoThe people who weren't convinced of "a good mask reduces spread of a respiratory illness" 3-4 years ago won't be convinced by this either. It's like when Bill Nye debated creationist Ken Ham; when asked what would convince them they're wrong, Nye said "evidence" and Ham said "nothing".
- cies 2y agoFor professionals (doctors) it works, we know that for a long time. It's not fail safe, but it works. For the rest of the population it is hard to determine a mask measure works. Even with this study it's hard to determine. Regular people tend to reuse masks too much, not care for quality labels (N95, etc), and not adjust them well.
- gunapologist99 2y agoThe other masks actually didn't work though. Only disposable paper surgical masks (actually disposed of after single use!) worked (if the definition of worked was "reduced the transmission of at least droplets when coughing"), or real masks like KN95 or N95 certainly worked. Those cloth masks that were reused every day did far more harm then good, especially if they were not washed. They did nothing against the pressure race of a cough, and most transmissibility was via aerosol anyway, not droplets. The politics simply distorted the science, like when we saw Executive staff wearing logoed blue cloth masks more as a fashion statement than any real science, while subjecting the wearer to reduced air flow, exacerbating things like asthma or cardiac issues, and trapping some virus and random bacteria in a cess pool of saliva in a cloth mask that got saturated within minutes. It's a real shame that people who knew better didn't say, "these masks work and these other masks are worse than no mask at all." Politics took over and both sides were trapped by the nuance, and the result is a stain on the history of science and public health.
- 2y ago
- tonetheman 2y ago[dead]
- 23B1 2y agoHere's how the headline should read: "The right mask, worn properly, can do a nearly perfect job of blocking COVID-19" It's incredible to me that after all this, we still write and publish declarative headlines and articles like this.
- ceejayoz 2y agoThe article addresses fit. > Even without giving participants fit tests or training on how to wear masks correctly, all masks significantly reduced the amount of virus escaping into the air. Including interesting results around cloth masks fitting better than surgical/KN95 masks: > Cloth masks also outperformed both KN95 and surgical masks. Milton theorizes that cloth masks with greater coverage, wrap around the face and give a better seal than either KN95 or surgical masks. With cloth mask filters, flow resistance is also lower, allowing breath to pass through the filter and not leak out the sides of the mask.
- 23B1 2y agoDoesn't excuse the lazy headline writing. If we're talking about a serious public health matter, the press shouldn't shift the cognitive load to their readers ffs.
- ceejayoz 2y agoThe headline (and its subheadline) is a fair and effective summary of the article. The rest of the article exists for anyone wanting the rest of the details. You only have to go to the first paragraph to hear about other types of masks, and the actual study is linked if you want to get really into the weeds.
- stuff4ben 2y agoFWIW, now that N95 masks aren't hard to get, I bought some a few months ago and holy crap they're so much better than the KN95s I had to use during COVID. I basically went maskless at times because the KN95 mask just leaked so much that I couldn't wear them. No matter how well I adjusted the metal nose bar, air leaked up when I breathed and it "tickled" my eyes so much I just stopped wearing them. I have since stockpiled a few hundred 3M N95s just in case.
- HPsquared 2y agoMost masks I used, my glasses would steam up from the amount of leakage. Edit: With all the statistics that were bandied around in that time, I wonder how many accidents were caused by steamed-up glasses due to leaky masks.
- HankB99 2y agoI used double stick tape (AKA "boob tape" on Amazon) to reduce leakage around the bridge of my nose. It helped reduce fogging of my glasses a lot. I guess it's called boob tape because boobs like me use it? I didn't see any need to wear a mask outdoors (except in a crowded circumstance) or when driving.
- aredox 2y agoThe 3M "Aura" masks with their origami-like folds are really good in terms of fit and comfort. I switched to them also when sanding wood.
- Springtime 2y agoThis is an interesting comparison, as there was a NIOSH study in late 2020 (released in 2021)[1] that used equipment to measure procedure masks, surgical masks, proper disposable respirators (with exhalation valves, since that was the main focus of the study) and cloth face coverings and T-shirt fabric (latter two more representative of common DIY masks). These were sealed shut onto the test equipment using wax (ie: perfect fitment, so best case scenario). They found a much higher penetration through the materials per se for cloth coverings and procedure masks. > Particle penetration through the surgical mask ranged from 2% to 17%. Procedure masks were most variable and ranged from 1% to 85% > For the six cloth face coverings, the submicron particle penetration ranged from 24% to 92%. For the two types of fabric from cotton t-shirts, submicron particle penetration ranged from 45% to 91%. Although this sample size was small, these penetration percentages for the cloth face coverings and fabric from cotton t-shirts are comparable to the 40% to 90% penetration found by previous NIOSH testing of cloth face coverings and fabrics. For the respirators with exhalation valves their finding was the particle penetration was <1% to 55% without any additional mitigation and under 5% when using the ECG pad mitigation strategy tested. Relevant since a common earlier critique (perhaps assumption) of valved respirators was they weren't as decent as even common masks for non-wearers. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2021-107/pdfs/2021-107.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2021-107/pdfs/2021-107.pdf
- instagraham 2y ago> the inexpensive “duckbill” N95 came out on top, Inexpensive is not a word I'd use to describe a mask you need multiple of in a week and monthly replacements of thereafter. For a virus that affects the entire world, "developing" and "developed", it's not an easy sell. But this rather harmless inference could've been promoted instead of the fake initial narrative of "masks are not that useful, save them for medical staff" that happened early on in the pandemic. Policymakers should never be gatekeeping information and acting like the public is too dumb to solve resulting supply-side issues.
- presto8 2y agoI've been wearing the same N95 duckbill for about 3 years now. It is getting a bit dirty but structurally it's fine. I don't wear it every day though, only in what I deem high-risk situations. Its construction is much more robust than the around-the-ears N95s. I think one could reasonably stretch out a box of 20 duckbills for a whole year even if worn daily. They are about $1 each. While I could see that there would be places that $20/year would be too much, I don't think money is the barrier here. People just don't like wearing masks (especially respirators, which are bulkier) for many reasons.
- throwaway48476 2y agoYou really should be replacing them as directed by the manufacturer. They're not effective after prolonged use.
- hurrdurr57 2y ago[flagged]
- ldehaan 2y ago[dead]
- t0bia_s 2y agoStudies with different conclusions: Wearing face masks as a potential source for inhalation and oral uptake of inanimate toxins – A scoping review https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0147651323013623 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014765132... Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD... Possible toxicity of chronic carbon dioxide exposure associated with face mask use, particularly in pregnant women, children and adolescents – A scoping review https://www.cell.com/heliyon/pdf/S2405-8440(23)01324-5.pdf https://www.cell.com/heliyon/pdf/S2405-8440(23)01324-5.pdf
- Blackstrat 2y agoBefore you go drinking the kool-aid here, read the sponsoring list. Then go back and read peer reviewed studies on masks that occurred before the COVID pandemic. Or read the disclaimers on the masks. Bottom line, masks, even N95, offer limited mitigation. Numerous studies have demonstrated that. As for the vaccine, personally I know more people that died of vaccine side effects than died of COVID. In fact, I know exactly one person that was deemed a COVID death, despite dying of a hospital acquired staph infection. The government paid more for COVID deaths than dying with COVID. If you spent any time dealing with hospitals during the pandemic, the abuse was obvious. And since it's an election year, it's time to round the sheep up and scare them to death once again. Having lived through numerous pandemics down through the year and seeing how the sheep behavior was stimulated during COVID, my suggestion is that Fauci and the rest of his fascist cabal spend the rest of their lives rotting in jail, especially now that he has essentially admitted that he was making it up as he went along AND that the lab leak theory has gained more traction. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Never again.