4 ms·

he said?

triyambakam 2y ago
I was thinking about this. I think there is a trend in English to use they even when the gender is known to indicate a kind of distance from that person. E.g. my guess about the parent poster is that they (he or she in this case, a different usage) may not be very close to the "silicon guy"
- nsteel 2y ago
  I don't think this is the case. Isn't it that "guy" is essentially gender neutral in this context? In the same way you can reasonably say "hi guys" to greet people of any gender. "Silicon person", "silicon gal" etc would be weirder phrasing. "Silicon specialist" maybe but I don't personally think any of this merits discussion.
  - trealira 2y ago
    Maybe it's used neutrally in greetings (e.g. "Hi guys,") but when referring to someone specific, if you say they're a guy, it will generally be assumed that person is a man.
    - nsteel 2y ago
      There's no maybe about it. And it goes beyond greetings. But I do agree it was non-sensical here
      - trealira 2y ago
        You're right, people do use it neutrally in greetings, not just maybe. And in more than greetings, more as a general form of address. More specifically, I would say that when not used to address multiple people in the second person (i.e. when saying "you guys"), then the word "guy" implies that the referent is male.
        nsteel 2y ago
        Except for idioms like "I've got a guy" where you just mean you've got someone in mind. And that's where I was coming from with "silicon guy" or "hardware guy", "software guy" etc. Just as generic terms for your goto person in those fields, no gender implied.
        trealira 2y ago
        I hadn't heard anyone use the word "guy" like that before now, and didn't know the word was used like that, so I wasn't thinking of those cases. If you said "I've got a guy" or "software guy" I'd assume you meant you had someone in mind who's a guy, i.e., male. I believe you, though. This might be something that differs regionally.
- teytra 2y ago
  This confuse us foreigners trying to use the English language even more than it must confuse regular english speakers. Not only did you (you guys, y'all, plural you, whatever...) mix up ye with you, using only the object form, but also started using it for thou and thee. Also, it was thy/thine not yours in the singular form. I suggest you "fix" your language by reintroducing these words, they (plural they) are not completely lost yet (ref: dialects and the Bible). https://langeek.co/en/grammar/course/8/archaic-pronouns#review-a9667860 https://langeek.co/en/grammar/course/8/archaic-pronouns#revi...
  - card_zero 2y ago
    I'll give it a shot, but what about the grammatical singular agreement of the rest of the sentence? Should I leave my second-person verbs in the plural, as in you do, you have, or modify them, as in thou dost, thou hast? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-est#Middle_English https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-est#Middle_English I guess you're basically asking me to speak dialectical Yorkshire.
- lioeters 2y ago
  I agree with this take. How the word "they" was used in the sentence implies a kind of "anonymous other", especially when they're a part of a group like a company. It could have been any member of that group, male or female. And there's a lack of individuality or familiarity, it doesn't matter so much the exact person.
- loudmax 2y ago
  Some time around the year 1500, English speakers stopped addressing each other as "thee" in favor of the plural form "you". The singular "thee" is intimate and informal, but might be considered rude in the wrong context. So using the more polite plural form "you" in all contexts is a safer option. Many young people seem to use the gender-neutral "they" rather than "he" or "she", even when the gender is known and is unambiguous. This may turn out to be a fad, or it may be a similar generational shift in the language.
  - Eavolution 2y ago
    What I find quite interesting is in the northern irish dialect, plural you is quite uncommon, usually plural you becomes yous or yousins, because irish has seperate words for singular and plural you
    - datameta 2y ago
      I wonder if the 20th century NYC dialect had "yous" from the wave of irish immigrants. As in "Yous guys ova hee". (Speaking as a native new yorker who doesn't hear this dialect much anymore except for maybe at a mechanic in, say, south brooklyn)
  - LoganDark 2y ago
    > Many young people seem to use the gender-neutral "they" rather than "he" or "she", even when the gender is known and is unambiguous. This may turn out to be a fad, or it may be a similar generational shift in the language. I don't know if it's generational, but on the internet it's less clear what someone's gender is, and assumptions have a decent chance of being wrong. The result is that I typically try my best to default to "they" for anyone who hasn't asked me to use different pronouns.

he said?

I was thinking about this. I think there is a trend in English to use they even when the gender is known to indicate a kind of distance from that person. E.g. my guess about the parent poster is that they (he or she in this case, a different usage) may not be very close to the "silicon guy"

nsteel 2y ago
I don't think this is the case. Isn't it that "guy" is essentially gender neutral in this context? In the same way you can reasonably say "hi guys" to greet people of any gender. "Silicon person", "silicon gal" etc would be weirder phrasing. "Silicon specialist" maybe but I don't personally think any of this merits discussion.
- trealira 2y ago
  Maybe it's used neutrally in greetings (e.g. "Hi guys,") but when referring to someone specific, if you say they're a guy, it will generally be assumed that person is a man.
  - nsteel 2y ago
    There's no maybe about it. And it goes beyond greetings. But I do agree it was non-sensical here
    - trealira 2y ago
      You're right, people do use it neutrally in greetings, not just maybe. And in more than greetings, more as a general form of address. More specifically, I would say that when not used to address multiple people in the second person (i.e. when saying "you guys"), then the word "guy" implies that the referent is male.
      - nsteel 2y ago
        Except for idioms like "I've got a guy" where you just mean you've got someone in mind. And that's where I was coming from with "silicon guy" or "hardware guy", "software guy" etc. Just as generic terms for your goto person in those fields, no gender implied.
        trealira 2y ago
        I hadn't heard anyone use the word "guy" like that before now, and didn't know the word was used like that, so I wasn't thinking of those cases. If you said "I've got a guy" or "software guy" I'd assume you meant you had someone in mind who's a guy, i.e., male. I believe you, though. This might be something that differs regionally.
teytra 2y ago
This confuse us foreigners trying to use the English language even more than it must confuse regular english speakers. Not only did you (you guys, y'all, plural you, whatever...) mix up ye with you, using only the object form, but also started using it for thou and thee. Also, it was thy/thine not yours in the singular form. I suggest you "fix" your language by reintroducing these words, they (plural they) are not completely lost yet (ref: dialects and the Bible). https://langeek.co/en/grammar/course/8/archaic-pronouns#review-a9667860 https://langeek.co/en/grammar/course/8/archaic-pronouns#revi...
- card_zero 2y ago
  I'll give it a shot, but what about the grammatical singular agreement of the rest of the sentence? Should I leave my second-person verbs in the plural, as in you do, you have, or modify them, as in thou dost, thou hast? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-est#Middle_English https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-est#Middle_English I guess you're basically asking me to speak dialectical Yorkshire.
lioeters 2y ago
I agree with this take. How the word "they" was used in the sentence implies a kind of "anonymous other", especially when they're a part of a group like a company. It could have been any member of that group, male or female. And there's a lack of individuality or familiarity, it doesn't matter so much the exact person.
loudmax 2y ago
Some time around the year 1500, English speakers stopped addressing each other as "thee" in favor of the plural form "you". The singular "thee" is intimate and informal, but might be considered rude in the wrong context. So using the more polite plural form "you" in all contexts is a safer option. Many young people seem to use the gender-neutral "they" rather than "he" or "she", even when the gender is known and is unambiguous. This may turn out to be a fad, or it may be a similar generational shift in the language.
- Eavolution 2y ago
  What I find quite interesting is in the northern irish dialect, plural you is quite uncommon, usually plural you becomes yous or yousins, because irish has seperate words for singular and plural you
  - datameta 2y ago
    I wonder if the 20th century NYC dialect had "yous" from the wave of irish immigrants. As in "Yous guys ova hee". (Speaking as a native new yorker who doesn't hear this dialect much anymore except for maybe at a mechanic in, say, south brooklyn)
- LoganDark 2y ago
  > Many young people seem to use the gender-neutral "they" rather than "he" or "she", even when the gender is known and is unambiguous. This may turn out to be a fad, or it may be a similar generational shift in the language. I don't know if it's generational, but on the internet it's less clear what someone's gender is, and assumptions have a decent chance of being wrong. The result is that I typically try my best to default to "they" for anyone who hasn't asked me to use different pronouns.