4 ms·

If you let people pump garbage water into the ground on your property, you deserve what comes back up. Unfortunately, subterranean water movement doesn't obey p

by krunck 2y ago

If you let people pump garbage water into the ground on your property, you deserve what comes back up. Unfortunately, subterranean water movement doesn't obey private property borders.

thoronton 2y ago
The land owners do not always have a choice. "Under split estate law, the surface owner must allow the mineral rights owner reasonable access. Protections for the surface owner vary; in some states an agreement is required that compensates them for the use of the land and reclaims the land after extraction is complete." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fracking_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fracking_in_the_United_State...
- SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
  Even not taking that into account, aquifers and groundwater and other subterranean formations don’t stop at property lines. If I’m your neighbor and I inject some dirty water at high pressure into my ground there’s a nonzero chance it might pop out on your land
  - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
    Never get tired of watching libertarian ideals collide with reality. Property rights do not make you an island, and what you do on your property with your property might well affect mine if I happen to be next to you.
- IncreasePosts 2y ago
  Well, they had a choice to sell their mineral rights, or purchase land that had no mineral rights.
  - dontlikeyoueith 2y ago
    This is often just false.
    - IncreasePosts 2y ago
      It is? People can just come on your land and force you to let them pump oil? Even if you own the mineral rights to your land? I'll admit I'm not familiar with Texas but that doesn't seem right. Here in colorado, you're never forced to sell your mineral rights and let people on your land, but if your neighbors sell their mineral rights, and an oil field that is under your property is being drawn from, you will receive royalty checks, even if you'd rather the oil stay in the ground. But, no one can make you build an oil well on your land.
      - Octoth0rpe 2y ago
        Not sure about Texas, but this absolutely a thing elsewhere. The GOP is currently working on making this easier in my state: https://www.yahoo.com/news/recent-changes-ohio-easier-force-085504449.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/recent-changes-ohio-easier-force-...
      - BobbyTables2 2y ago
        I believe subdivision property in Texas doesn’t come with mineral rights. I can only imagine how upset an HOA would get if drilling operations were performed without an approved architectural modification request.
      - gorkish 2y ago
        > you're never forced to sell your mineral rights and let people on your land You are correct; if you own the surface and mineral rights you are not obligated to allow for any surface use. The thing you describe where someone drills on neighboring property and you are tagged along is called Force Pooling and is a much more complex topic. You are not guaranteed to be force pooled -- if your neighbor has enough land to lease a full unit, it's conceivable that resources may still flow from your minerals towards the productive well without being compensated. It's usually in the landowners best interest to negotiate in good faith with a lessee than to be force pooled. If you own only the surface rights to your land and someone else owns the subsurface minerals or a lease to the subsurface minerals you can absolutely be obligated to allow surface access for development and production under reasonable and usual terms for such.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - NotYourLawyer 2y ago
    It’s pretty rare to find a ranch for sale with all the mineral rights intact.
seventyone 2y ago
I have some bad news for you... it's everywhere https://www.fractracker.org/waste/ https://www.fractracker.org/waste/
- araes 2y ago
  Neat Site. Because I was curious, and it's relevant to the sheer number of oil wells that have to be dealt with. Here's a picture of the Odessa / Midland area of West Texas. FracTracker, West TX, Oil Wells (purple) https://i.imgur.com/PpPzDeM.png https://i.imgur.com/PpPzDeM.png From: https://ft.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?appid=0cdff7e116c0425fa55d1226e9204477 https://ft.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?appi... (if you want to look at other areas) With how many there are in West TX, I could almost believe the ground is collapsing. Drilled and vacuumed out so much, its like foam underneath. There's a known issue with sinkholes also. https://blog.smu.edu/dedmancollege/2022/02/28/these-monstrous-texas-sinkholes-are-getting-bigger-and-heres-why-we-should-be-worried-read-more-these-monstrous-texas-sinkholes-are-getting-bigger/ https://blog.smu.edu/dedmancollege/2022/02/28/these-monstrou...
dj_gitmo 2y ago
These wells may have been drilled before the current owners were alive. > There’s nothing uncommon about a leaky old well. Many in West Texas were drilled during World War II and 80 years underground can do major damage to steel and concrete casing. Many of those wells were also flooded with water to squeeze out the last drops of oil.
- throwway120385 2y ago
  But that doesn't mean that modern activities can't affect the stability of the groundwater in those wells. If the outflow is pretty salty it stands to reason that it's produced water that was dumped underground.
- fundad 2y ago
  He's a fourth-generation rancher so the previous owners are his own family. His own family collected the payment for these wells and maybe made a mistake.
cush 2y ago
The people that made those decisions are gone
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

by krunck 2y ago

If you let people pump garbage water into the ground on your property, you deserve what comes back up. Unfortunately, subterranean water movement doesn't obey private property borders.

thoronton 2y ago

The land owners do not always have a choice. "Under split estate law, the surface owner must allow the mineral rights owner reasonable access. Protections for the surface owner vary; in some states an agreement is required that compensates them for the use of the land and reclaims the land after extraction is complete." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fracking_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fracking_in_the_United_State...

SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
Even not taking that into account, aquifers and groundwater and other subterranean formations don’t stop at property lines. If I’m your neighbor and I inject some dirty water at high pressure into my ground there’s a nonzero chance it might pop out on your land
- ToucanLoucan 2y ago
  Never get tired of watching libertarian ideals collide with reality. Property rights do not make you an island, and what you do on your property with your property might well affect mine if I happen to be next to you.
IncreasePosts 2y ago
Well, they had a choice to sell their mineral rights, or purchase land that had no mineral rights.
- dontlikeyoueith 2y ago
  This is often just false.
  - IncreasePosts 2y ago
    It is? People can just come on your land and force you to let them pump oil? Even if you own the mineral rights to your land? I'll admit I'm not familiar with Texas but that doesn't seem right. Here in colorado, you're never forced to sell your mineral rights and let people on your land, but if your neighbors sell their mineral rights, and an oil field that is under your property is being drawn from, you will receive royalty checks, even if you'd rather the oil stay in the ground. But, no one can make you build an oil well on your land.
    - Octoth0rpe 2y ago
      Not sure about Texas, but this absolutely a thing elsewhere. The GOP is currently working on making this easier in my state: https://www.yahoo.com/news/recent-changes-ohio-easier-force-085504449.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/recent-changes-ohio-easier-force-...
    - BobbyTables2 2y ago
      I believe subdivision property in Texas doesn’t come with mineral rights. I can only imagine how upset an HOA would get if drilling operations were performed without an approved architectural modification request.
    - gorkish 2y ago
      > you're never forced to sell your mineral rights and let people on your land You are correct; if you own the surface and mineral rights you are not obligated to allow for any surface use. The thing you describe where someone drills on neighboring property and you are tagged along is called Force Pooling and is a much more complex topic. You are not guaranteed to be force pooled -- if your neighbor has enough land to lease a full unit, it's conceivable that resources may still flow from your minerals towards the productive well without being compensated. It's usually in the landowners best interest to negotiate in good faith with a lessee than to be force pooled. If you own only the surface rights to your land and someone else owns the subsurface minerals or a lease to the subsurface minerals you can absolutely be obligated to allow surface access for development and production under reasonable and usual terms for such.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- NotYourLawyer 2y ago
  It’s pretty rare to find a ranch for sale with all the mineral rights intact.

seventyone 2y ago

I have some bad news for you... it's everywhere https://www.fractracker.org/waste/ https://www.fractracker.org/waste/

araes 2y ago
Neat Site. Because I was curious, and it's relevant to the sheer number of oil wells that have to be dealt with. Here's a picture of the Odessa / Midland area of West Texas. FracTracker, West TX, Oil Wells (purple) https://i.imgur.com/PpPzDeM.png https://i.imgur.com/PpPzDeM.png From: https://ft.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?appid=0cdff7e116c0425fa55d1226e9204477 https://ft.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?appi... (if you want to look at other areas) With how many there are in West TX, I could almost believe the ground is collapsing. Drilled and vacuumed out so much, its like foam underneath. There's a known issue with sinkholes also. https://blog.smu.edu/dedmancollege/2022/02/28/these-monstrous-texas-sinkholes-are-getting-bigger-and-heres-why-we-should-be-worried-read-more-these-monstrous-texas-sinkholes-are-getting-bigger/ https://blog.smu.edu/dedmancollege/2022/02/28/these-monstrou...

dj_gitmo 2y ago

These wells may have been drilled before the current owners were alive. > There’s nothing uncommon about a leaky old well. Many in West Texas were drilled during World War II and 80 years underground can do major damage to steel and concrete casing. Many of those wells were also flooded with water to squeeze out the last drops of oil.

throwway120385 2y ago
But that doesn't mean that modern activities can't affect the stability of the groundwater in those wells. If the outflow is pretty salty it stands to reason that it's produced water that was dumped underground.
fundad 2y ago
He's a fourth-generation rancher so the previous owners are his own family. His own family collected the payment for these wells and maybe made a mistake.

cush 2y ago

The people that made those decisions are gone

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]