7 ms·

I am really quite disturbed by all of the people who are responding something along the lines of "this isn't the conference organizer's problem, it's happening

by lambda 14y ago

I am really quite disturbed by all of the people who are responding something along the lines of "this isn't the conference organizer's problem, it's happening outside of the conference." I've seen several such replies, so rather than responding to one, I'm responding to the whole sentiment here. At a conference, there is a lot that goes on during unofficial off-hours, that is really an integral part of the conference. We shouldn't consider it acceptable for women to feel unsafe going to such off-hours events. If there is someone who is a guest at that conference, and showing up to off-hours events associate with the conference, that is still the conference's problem, as it significantly negatively affects an important part of the conference, and could be avoided by making that person unwelcome at the conference. And this is not a court of law. We regularly ban people from online communities with a much lower bar of proof than would be required in a court of law, because those people are harmful to the community. Yes, any particular process could, in theory, be abused. But that isn't, as far as I know, a problem here. I have never heard of someone being banned from a conference unjustly. And we have a lower bar in these cases because the consequences are not as severe as criminal sanctions. We are not trying to lock someone up. We are not trying to get them arrested. We are just saying "this behavior is unacceptable, and you are not welcome in our community if you are going to behave this way." All the original post is asking is that conferences have a clearly defined policy on what is unacceptable, and what will happen if someone crosses that line. It doesn't sound like there's any dispute about what happened. It sounds like the person in question had a history of problems, as the organizer said he shouldn't have allowed this person to come to the conference. There isn't a problem here of people being unjustly accused and cut off from conferences because of it. There is a problem of women being harassed, seriously creeped out, feeling unwelcome and unable to do anything about it because of the actions of a few, and the lack of any clear policy or action on the part of conference organizers. And heck, a clear policy can help. Perhaps it can specify that the first time, someone will be warned, and only banned if they have already been warned. Perhaps it can specify a dispute resolution procedure. A clear policy will help everyone. We need to do better, because this keeps coming up and it is a serious problem.

JohnBooty 14y ago
> It sounds like the person in question had a history of > problems, as the organizer said he shouldn't have allowed > this person to come to the conference. Even then, it may be far from clear-cut. We don't know what those problems are. Have there been reports of harassment regarding this guy? If so, that's fairly clear-cut. But maybe this is just kind of a jerk, but hasn't done anything over the line before. While conference organizers certainly shouldn't put their heads in the sand, realistically they're a small part of the potential solution. The community at large really has the most power here - it has many more eyes and ears than the (usually overworked) conference organizers. I'm wondering where the rest of the community was when this harassment was going on at the bar. The victim says they were there in a group. So a whole group of conference attendees was just standing around, letting this victim be harassed? Unlike the conference organizers, they were there. At the bar. In close proximity.
- mnicole 14y ago
  "I'm wondering where the rest of the community was when this harassment was going on at the bar. So a whole group of conference attendees was just standing around, letting this victim be harassed?" As many of the comments here suggest, people just expect that these types of people will stop if/when a woman puts her foot down and says something to the guy. This sounds great in theory, but for people like the harasser, it often just agitates their behavior. In a male-dominated group setting, he probably felt even more comfortable and possibly even validated by his peers when none of them chimed in (if they were overhearing any of the conversation). For men and women alike, even though it isn't right, people find it easier to try to ignore it than make it an issue in front of others -- especially people you respect and are likely to see and interact with again. What Julie really emphasizes in her post is that this innocent-bystander attitude needs to be addressed -- this guy shouldn't have felt it was within his grasp to solicit her to begin with. Even creeps have limitations and a more active community approach in dealing with the very concept of them can help stop it.
- anigbrowl 14y ago
  Quite so, but it might not have been obvious - that is, his remarks may not have been made across the table, but in a quieter tone. If you're in a group of 10 or 20 people talking all at once you're not necessarily paying attention to an exchange between two of your number at an adjoining table. I don't know what sort of configuration people were in at this bar, obviously. But when she mentioned that the fellow singled her out, I took it to mean that he got into a one-on-one conversation rather than pitching his offensive remarks across a conference table. Bars tend to be noisy and people often break up into pairs or mini-groups as the evening wears on.

by lambda 14y ago

JohnBooty 14y ago

> It sounds like the person in question had a history of > problems, as the organizer said he shouldn't have allowed > this person to come to the conference. Even then, it may be far from clear-cut. We don't know what those problems are. Have there been reports of harassment regarding this guy? If so, that's fairly clear-cut. But maybe this is just kind of a jerk, but hasn't done anything over the line before. While conference organizers certainly shouldn't put their heads in the sand, realistically they're a small part of the potential solution. The community at large really has the most power here - it has many more eyes and ears than the (usually overworked) conference organizers. I'm wondering where the rest of the community was when this harassment was going on at the bar. The victim says they were there in a group. So a whole group of conference attendees was just standing around, letting this victim be harassed? Unlike the conference organizers, they were there. At the bar. In close proximity.

mnicole 14y ago
"I'm wondering where the rest of the community was when this harassment was going on at the bar. So a whole group of conference attendees was just standing around, letting this victim be harassed?" As many of the comments here suggest, people just expect that these types of people will stop if/when a woman puts her foot down and says something to the guy. This sounds great in theory, but for people like the harasser, it often just agitates their behavior. In a male-dominated group setting, he probably felt even more comfortable and possibly even validated by his peers when none of them chimed in (if they were overhearing any of the conversation). For men and women alike, even though it isn't right, people find it easier to try to ignore it than make it an issue in front of others -- especially people you respect and are likely to see and interact with again. What Julie really emphasizes in her post is that this innocent-bystander attitude needs to be addressed -- this guy shouldn't have felt it was within his grasp to solicit her to begin with. Even creeps have limitations and a more active community approach in dealing with the very concept of them can help stop it.
anigbrowl 14y ago
Quite so, but it might not have been obvious - that is, his remarks may not have been made across the table, but in a quieter tone. If you're in a group of 10 or 20 people talking all at once you're not necessarily paying attention to an exchange between two of your number at an adjoining table. I don't know what sort of configuration people were in at this bar, obviously. But when she mentioned that the fellow singled her out, I took it to mean that he got into a one-on-one conversation rather than pitching his offensive remarks across a conference table. Bars tend to be noisy and people often break up into pairs or mini-groups as the evening wears on.