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Australian Border Force searched phones of 10k travellers in past two years

• verticalscaler 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • kube-system 2y ago
    Phone searches at borders have nothing to do with the COVID.
    • verticalscaler 2y ago
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      • kube-system 2y ago
        Phone searches at borders have been common, all around the world (and in Australia), way before COVID existed. https://i.nextmedia.com.au/Assets/fa-220200502-document-released.pdf https://i.nextmedia.com.au/Assets/fa-220200502-document-rele...
      • stephenr 2y ago
        I'm an Australian citizen. Almost all my friends are Australian citizens. What fucking "lived experience" are you waffling on like a pork chop about?
        • verticalscaler 2y ago
          My apologies, I don't have a waffling permit. Yourself and all your friends are pleased with everything that happened during that time period? My mistake. I can only take you at your word, that's what I mean by lived experience. If you're happy, I'm happy. The Australians I met stuck abroad at the time were... not. You might also look upthread. Maybe their opinions don't count or something.
          • stephenr 2y ago
            Pleased? No. A bunch of people died because a small minority of people wanted to be selfish fuck-holes. But again - as has been pointed out to you already, the policy in discussion is 100% unrelated to COVID, or lockdowns for that matter. You might as well claim that Australia has strict biosecurity rules and doesn't let you bring in a banana because of COVID lockdowns.
            • verticalscaler 2y ago
              > But again - as has been pointed out to you already, the policy in discussion is 100% unrelated to COVID, or lockdowns for that matter. Thanks for calling me a pork chop and telling me what is wrongthink. Fire first, ask questions later.. It seems entirely outside your comprehension how such a thing might be abused. Furthermore you aggressively refuse to hear anyone out. Your country, your rules bud. I sincerely hope they never find you disagreeable - as you do me - for any reason. Hope it all works out. But personally I would not be comfortable with someone like you as my border guard. Great country otherwise but won’t chance it.
              • stephenr 2y ago
                > what is wrongthink. It's nothing to do with "wrongthink". It's a completely unrelated topic. Imagine if you were involved in a conversation about the negative impacts of the tobacco industry on society, and I just jumped in with "cars are by far more dangerous than air travel". Regardless of whether what I said is true, it has nothing to do with the existing conversation. You'll notice that I chose a very easy to prove fact for my hypothetical interjection here. You very much did not state a provable fact, but I'm going to ignore that because whether or not what you said is provable, it's still completely unrelated to the topic being discussed. It's nothing to do with finding you "disagreeable". It's pretty basic etiquette when having a conversation. I'm not really sure why you think I would be your border guard, or how you assume I would treat a person in that scenario even if I was? I very much dislike the policy being discussed - warrantless 'demands' to access a phone when crossing the border, I'm just trying to explain to you that - (a) it's unrelated to COVID in any way; and - (b) in my experience the assumption by foreigners (typically Americans but probably not exclusively) that Australians are all "hopping mad" about the government reaction to COVID is vastly overblown. A small number of very vocal, selfish shitheads protested and pretended to be people they're not (i.e. buying hi-vis gear to appear as if they're construction workers). The vast majority of the population has just the slightest bit of common decency and sense of community well being. There's a reason 5x as many cases in the US resulted in deaths, and why the death rate (i.e. deaths per n population) was 3.6x higher - and that's using data updated very recently, so it includes the past 12-18 months when restrictions have been lifted everywhere.
• peutetre 2y ago
  > The department data reveals that close to 94% of the time people freely revealed their phone passcode to officers, despite there being no legal requirement to do so. There really needs to be better education in civics. It's so important to know your rights, especially when someone in a position of authority tries to abuse that authority.
  • sva_ 2y ago
    'freely revealed' probably means 'we\'ll have to keep this until we managed to unlock it.'
  • coldtea 2y ago
    It's also important to not get boged down in the airport or denied entry out of spite though...
  • LimeLimestone 2y ago
    Does it apply to non-citizens? As far as I know, in the US you can politely decline a phone search if you are a US citizen. If you're a foreign tourist your only choice is either to allow the search or be denied entry to the Land of Freedom™ How does it work in Australia?
    • sofixa 2y ago
      > far as I know, in the US you can politely decline a phone search if you are a US citizen Same with being filmed at the airport. Last time I passed through US airports there were signs that you're monitored and it goes to blah blah database, and that if you're a US citizen, you can request to be removed. If you're not, go fuck yourself and pray all your biometric data isn't stored at the cheapest possible vendor and about to be leaked.
      • macksd 2y ago
        And would anyone be surprised if asking to be removed was also a way to get subjected to additional screening in future?
• geocrasher 2y ago
  Easy solution: Travel with a burner phone.
  • williamdclt 2y ago
    That's a very loose definition of "easy"
    • geocrasher 2y ago
      Use whatever word you like better. Straightforward, Simple, uncomplicated not difficult. Seriously, set up a new phone, new number, new Gmail account, new IG/FB accounts, use them a week before you leave- tell your friends "Follow me here for my trip!" and have your phone number forwawrded. Put a few contacts in it. Done. Not a big deal at all for most technically competent people. That's us, right?
      • johnchristopher 2y ago
        I have been trying to create a facebook account recently, for work, I didn't use my real name (I just needed a facebook account to follow some pages). I got flagged and now have to provide additional proof of identity. Same for IG. I don't think it's as easy as before to create a temp. facebook account. After setting it up you need to feed it right.
        • tavavex 2y ago
          Luckily, temporary/fake FB accounts are less necessary nowadays than ever. Out of all of my extended social circle (techy university students), I don't know a single one who actively uses Facebook. I don't see why not having an account should be seen as bad or suspicious.
      • DowagerDave 2y ago
        This is ridiculous. Put aside the idea of purchasing a new phone for a trip, you then suggest setting up all new accounts and then "telling your friends" - how exactly? contact everyone from your "real" accounts and say add my fake account? What about when you come back - tell them "ok delete my fake account and add my real one"? which is which now, oh and how do you access all your real contacts, credentials, payment, etc that you needed during your trip? And I do this everytime I travel? You seem to focus on the technical aspects but really gloss over the entire "create a duplicate online life every time you travel"
• jl6 2y ago
  10,000 phone searches in the last two years. 3.3m visitors in March 2024 alone. So something like 0.01% of travellers get their phones searched. How are those 0.01% selected? > The agency does not provide information on the success rate for searches, but has said a phone would only be seized where officers suspected it had “special forfeited goods” such as “illegal pornography, terrorism-related material and media that has been, or would be, refused classification”. One wonders how such a suspicion is formed.
  • zensavona 2y ago
    Also consider Australians who travel and return home. I have personally had my phone searched 3 times. I know many people who also have the same experience. One time I refused and let them keep the phone, just bought a new iPhone and restored it. Since then I was searched almost every time I went through the airport. After refusing to hand over the code (Politely... I explained that no, there is no terrorism material or similar on my phone, I just object to this practice, which they could not comprehend) I was treated pretty aggressively, had my whole body searched (not strip searched, but groped very well all over), all my luggage taken apart etc.
    • b112 2y ago
      The trickster side of me, makes me think you should have made very ... sensual sounds as they groped you. Yes bad idea, but funny idea too.
    • stephenr 2y ago
      > I have personally had my phone searched 3 times. I think it's safe to say the first time got you on a shit list. So what triggered the first time? Where were you flying from? Are there any other factors that while not at all indicators of guilt, might make them [suspect] you? It could have been simple racial profiling or it might be context (ie a lone 60 year old dude travelling from Thailand or the Philippines). Like I said neither of these is a sign of guilt but they may cause/contribute to suspicion.
• Hizonner 2y ago
  Before any international travel: 1. Wipe phone 2. Install goatse wallpaper
  • tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
    3. Get arrested for bringing "indecent material" or whatever they call that into the country.
    • Hizonner 2y ago
      Well, yeah, given that it's Australia. Slaughterhouse waste wallpaper should be OK though.
• curtis3389 2y ago
  This comment section reveals that you live in a dystopia.
• cletus 2y ago
  Story time: when I worked at Google we had a specific policy for traveling to and from China. IIRC it went something like this: 1. You absolutely aren't allowed to take your regular phone and laptop; 2. You will be given loaner devices to take into China; 3. If you're asked to open such devices on entry, comply and then, when you can, inform IT; 4. Once you got back, I'm not sure what happened to those devices. I believe they were in the very least wiped. They may even have been destroyed in certain circumstances (eg if a border official examined the open device). But that's speculation. I never travelled to China so never used this. A colleague who regularly traveled to China told me some stories about this. But yes it does seem prudent to wipe your device and restore when you land. Then again, border officials can also deny you entry with very little justification so who knows?
  • codetrotter 2y ago
    > it does seem prudent to wipe your device and restore when you land. Then again, border officials can also deny you entry with very little justification so who knows? For example, if they instruct you to turn on the device, and they see the setup screen or even just that it has no photos, no messages, nothing, might raise suspicion I would imagine. Good luck trying to argue with them that absence of data should be considered normal and not a reason for them to harass you :(
    • Kim_Bruning 2y ago
      They might try to claim that you're smuggling a new phone or some such. But you could often just state that it's corporate policy? Now you can both take the same side complaining about stupid bureaucratic rules making everyone's life harder.
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • Garvi 2y ago
    That's exactly like the travel advisories to the US for EU firms. If it bothers you this much, why this Don Quixote act, why not do something about it where you actually can? Otherwise it's just bashing the Chinese for internet happy points. Just like reddit.
• seydor 2y ago
  That's too much work - we should use AI to preemptively scan the phones for illegal thoughts
• Kim_Bruning 2y ago
  People still wonder why I'm so careful with phones. At this moment, phones in many jurisdictions are still fair game. Anyone can grab whatever they want from them. That's why you can't really trust them. We need new rules that declare the 'confidentiality of phone contents,' especially information at rest, as inviolable, similar to the secrecy of correspondence.
• zensavona 2y ago
  I'll just add a couple of details here since I have had this happen to me multiple times... I'm an Australian citizen and this applies just as much to me as a foreigner (for whom although I disagree about, I could make a reasonable argument for this being valid). Police require a warrant and/or reasonable suspicion of having committed a specific crime to search any part of you or your belongings. Border Force do not require this. When they ask for the code, they will either: - just open your device and rifle through your photos and messages in front of you, asking questions like "got a lot of photos of x, what's that about?" or "who is y?", ask you questions like "what are you doing in Australia? Who are you seeing? What's your relationship to them?" et cetera (even to me, a citizen who spends majority of my time abroad). - Take it into another room for 20mins or so and presumably take a dump of the whole thing for further analysis. I once asked "what is done with this data and how long is it stored" and they refused to answer the question. One time after refusing to hand over the code (politely) I was treated pretty aggressively, had my whole body searched (not strip searched, groped well all over), all my luggage taken apart etc. I received a letter in the mail that I could go and collect my phone at the airport after around 3 weeks. It seems unlikely they have some tech which allows exfiltration of data from a locked iPhone(?) so I'm not sure what that's about. They claimed to me that they do indeed have this capability. Since refusing to open the phone and letting them keep it I seem to be on some kind of list and have had a Border Force officer meet me at the baggage carousel a couple of times with the "please come with me sir" to my own private search area where a few of them are ready to search my luggage inside out. This seems to happen less recently since I have just given them the code. They have successfully made it inconvenient enough for me to comply. One time years ago they did the same thing with my laptop. Since that incident they have only asked about my phone.
  • Rinzler89 2y ago
    Ah shit, comments like these and the videos from Boy Boy and Friendly Jordies makes me want to avoid traveling to Australia when I see how easily law enforcement there just violates people's rights using some legal loophole.
    • bloomingeek 2y ago
• qingcharles 2y ago
  At Heathrow airport I was offered the option of switching my laptop on to show them it worked, plus a full body x-ray, or "the other option" (man waves a pair of gloves insinuating a full body cavity search). So, you can see what (mostly) everyone would choose there. The only bonus was that security man managed to walk me around the 2-hour long security line.
  • gruez 2y ago
    >switching my laptop on to show them it worked That seems... fine? They're not asking you unlock your laptop, just to turn it on, presumably to prove it's actually a laptop and not a bomb in a laptop's case.
    • tavavex 2y ago
      Can't they determine this based on the x-ray scan alone? I mean, what's the other option - would they arrest a person carrying non-working/for-parts hardware?
      • gruez 2y ago
        >Can't they determine this based on the x-ray scan alone? Not a bomb expert, but a laptop is just a bunch of electronics next to a solid mass (for the battery). A bomb is also just a bunch electronics next to a solid mass (for the explosive). >I mean, what's the other option - would they arrest a person carrying non-working/for-parts hardware? I doubt they'll arrest you, but I vaguely remember airline websites saying that any laptops you bring MUST be able to turn on so they might confiscate it.
        • sebzim4500 2y ago
          IME british airport security is more understanding than most, they'll probably try to find a way to do some test or let you check it. If it doesn't turn on then you're hardly going to be using it on the flight anyway.
  • sebzim4500 2y ago
• tamimio 2y ago
  If you are using an iPhone, make sure to enable pair locking (1). Additionally, I recommend storing your photos (or your phone backup) on a LUKS-encrypted Linux laptop. Do not trust corporate encryption software; it’s better to use a new phone while traveling if you don’t want to bother with that. (1) https://arkadiyt.com/2019/10/07/pair-locking-your-iphone-with-configurator-2/ https://arkadiyt.com/2019/10/07/pair-locking-your-iphone-wit...
  • stephenr 2y ago
    Thanks for the heads up on pair locking. I saw a comment somewhere (without much to back it up, admittedly) that suggested "Lockdown mode" would also prevent similar attacks (which apparently prevents connections of any kind when locked). It definitely sounds like pair locking is a more reliable method, but lockdown mode can be done a few minutes before getting to a border, it doesn't require access to a laptop/desktop to run Configurator.
    • tamimio 2y ago
      I’m not sure about lockdown mode, but the advantage of pair locking is that the lock (say, your MacBook) can be left at home and isn’t currently with you, so no matter what, it will be locked. Lockdown mode might not work under certain coercion conditions.
      • stephenr 2y ago
        True, and it doesn't seem like it impacts any other functionality at all, unlike lockdown mode.
• ashleygh 2y ago
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