7 ms·

My particular bugbear here is the absolutely insanity of truck and SUV heights, to the point that even full-grown adults are no longer clearly visible from insi

My particular bugbear here is the absolutely insanity of truck and SUV heights, to the point that even full-grown adults are no longer clearly visible from inside new vehicles (https://i.imgur.com/1dHWVxn.png https://i.imgur.com/1dHWVxn.png).

slifin 2y ago
It's crazy in this country SUV protestors deflate the tires I always wonder if cars that are particularly top heavy could be flipped over while parked by particularly strong pedestrians
silisili 2y ago
[flagged]
bedobi 2y ago
100% agree, and instead of showing any signs of stopping, the size increase is accelerating. Yesterday we used to joke about the trucks of today. Tomorrow, they will be twice as big.
causality0 2y ago
We need reforms to the method the EPA uses to calculate and enforce fuel efficiency requirements. It's the direct driver of the gigantifucation of vehicles.
- bedobi 2y ago
  Simplest thing to do would be to just tax weight (at time of purchase and yearly) and require commercial license (only obtainable with demonstrable justification like running a business that requires hauling loads every day)
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Still need to force trucks to design the front to be as pedestrian friendly as possible.
    - david-gpu 2y ago
      And ensure visibility! Those tanks on wheels can't see my children.
- denkmoon 2y ago
  People's desires are the direct driver of gigantification of vehicles. I assure you nobody buying a RAM or F150 gives two shits about EPA or fuel efficiency.
  - kjkjadksj 2y ago
    People had no choice. When they come out with a new generation of car model they stop producing the old.
    - admax88qqq 2y ago
      There’s also still the insane 25% tariff on light trucks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax Which makes importing smaller trucks like you see in other countries cost prohibitive
      - denkmoon 2y ago
        Only the most frugal and businesses are thinking about that tariff. Ads for these excessively large "utility" vehicles (which have sacrificed bed size for cabin comfort and are often not 4WD) are very indicative. They don't talk about price (and when they do, it's focused on credit terms rather than the capital cost). They talk about power, lifestyle, and giving the perception of masculinity. That is why people buy these vehicles, and that is the mindset that drives their size.
        shiroiushi 2y ago
        That's part of it, but not all: it depends on the buyer. People buying big trucks as a fashion statement are definitely doing it for this reason, but there's people who genuinely need trucks, and they're all bitching and complaining about 1) trucks costing $50k-100k because they're basically luxury vehicles and they don't make cheap, utilitarian versions any more, and also because all those fashion-statement buyers have driven up demand, and 2) that there aren't any small pickups available now, since many of them need a truck, but not a big truck. Some people have even taken to importing 25+ year old Japanese "kei" trucks (very very small utility trucks used in Japan) as "historic" vehicles and using those, but it seems some states are now trying to clamp down on this.
- namibj 2y ago
  E.g. say non-CDL trucks can only have one seat in addition to the driver's seat. Bam, SUVs are really unattractive.
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
  GWB sure did a nice favor for those corps his last couple years in office
  - geysersam 2y ago
    Are you referring to some specific reform? Could you give a link? I'd like to read up on it
- eru 2y ago
  Yes, if by 'reform', you mean abolish. As you can see, those requirements just get gamed. Instead of complicated rules, just tax fuel (or emissions etc), and consumers will institute their own personal fuel efficiency requirements.
  - beretguy 2y ago
    > just tax fuel (or emissions etc) No, because that harm small fun sports cars. The problem is big cars. Just ban big cars.
    - ponector 2y ago
      Fuel tax is the best solution. Pay as you go. More fuel you consume more emissions you produce, more distance you go, more road your wear occurs. Do you want to get 8l V8 engine? Fine, just pay your fuel taxes.
      - gnz11 2y ago
        Each US state has a gas tax already. Higher gas prices also don’t seem to stop people from buying giant trucks and SUVs.
        AmVess 2y ago
        A reasonable well optioned truck is $75,000. People who can afford to spend that are immune from high gas prices.
        sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
        You'd be surprised how many people look only at the monthly payment amount and ignore other financial concerns when deciding on a vehicle purchase. And perhaps with some terribly long loan term like 72 or 96 months they can get that payment to "fit" in their budget.
        2y ago
complaintdept 2y ago
Actually, you'd want to get rid of those in car displays that require you to take your eyes off the road to do almost anything now, and will also spoil your night vision. There was an episode of Radiolab that was talking about this, and they made a very compelling case for it, along with those super bright headlamps that ruin your night vision when they're equipped on an oncoming vehicle. Tellingly, almost all increase in traffic accidents we've seen recently have happened at night. Pedestrian accidents with trucks haven't really gone up more than other vehicles either.
- whitakerch 2y ago
  You'd want to get rid of both.
- lukan 2y ago
  "along with those super bright headlamps that ruin your night vision when they're equipped on an oncoming vehicle." I hate them. I dream of the day, when proper night vision gear with the result displayed to the front window will be standard in cars, so all the cars can have no, or very soft lights to drive around savely at night. Also, why not heat vision to better spot humans (and animals)? For the AI as well as the humans. Is the tech military restricted? Probably partly.
  - ruined 2y ago
    photonic intensifiers are ITAR controlled, but china has started manufacturing gen2 equivalents recently. digital is controlled but more widely made, but also barely worth it. the real issue is how to display it. for head-mounted setups it's essentially full field of view, and in monocular use combination is subconscious, but it's still rather awkward and requires practice. you can't achieve the same effect on a windshield, even with HUD. cadillac had this feature in the 90s, though.
    - godelski 2y ago
      This made me interested and I found a small showcase of HUDs in cars from the 1950's-1990's https://hudway.co/blog/history-of-automotive-heads-up-displays https://hudway.co/blog/history-of-automotive-heads-up-displa...
TaylorAlexander 2y ago
I recently had to borrow one of those big trucks to do some towing. Sitting in the drivers seat I felt like I was staring through a narrow slit. The nose and entire dash of the car are so high up it felt very unsettling. It seems extremely unsafe!
ThalesX 2y ago
I'm in Eastern Europe; I've only seen an "American-style" SUV once I think two decades ago. I still can't get that image out of my mind. It was like a tank in front of my car. I couldn't understand how it fits our streets, how it parks, I couldn't see around it. Just... wow, honestly. I have no idea what car it was, but it was like a huge pick-up.
- jjav 2y ago
  > I've only seen an "American-style" SUV once I think two decades ago. If it was ~20 years ago it wasn't even that big compared to today!
- nottorp 2y ago
  I once saw a F-150. It needed 3 parking spots at my eastern european local mall :) And I don't mean the driver was an asshole, it simply wouldn't have fit in otherwise.
  - aswanson 2y ago
    There have been studies showing that the driver was likely an asshole. Not kidding: https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=2VnfQw_rMsZckB1I https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=2VnfQw_rMsZckB1I
    - ModernMech 2y ago
      Starts at 12:10
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    The driver was an asshole for not finding somewhere else to put it.
  - i80and 2y ago
    I deeply hate driving my family's F-150 for this reason. It doesn't fit in American parking spaces. Ridiculous vehicle.
  - 2y ago
pantalaimon 2y ago
There was a case recently where a little girl was crushed by a SUV making a right turn at a pedestrian crossing. She was walking right behind her parents, but the driver could not see her because the vehicle was too high, so thought the road was free when the parents had passed through. The court decided that the driver was at no fault as it was impossible to see the girl from his position.
- krisoft 2y ago
  > The court decided that the driver was at no fault as it was impossible to see the girl from his position. I hope that means that the vehicle manufacturer is on a murder trial then. But I do not have illusions that this will lead to actual change.
  - eru 2y ago
    Well, the driver should also be on the hook for driving such a dangerous machine in the first place.
    - bhickey 2y ago
      The manufacturer should be jointly liable for producing a defective vehicle.
      - erikw 2y ago
        I don't think you can legally sell a new small vehicle in the US, so the root cause is legislation that prevents this. I believe that if you could legally produce kei sized vehicles in the US, there would be a massive market for it, especially in urban environments. And I'm sure US manufacturers would be happy to sell them to all comers. Edit: Basically any car from Suzuki would be a hit in the US: https://www.suzukiauto.co.za/new-cars https://www.suzukiauto.co.za/new-cars
        hiatus 2y ago
        > I don't think you can legally sell a new small vehicle in the US This is blatantly false. See: the Mitsubishi Mirage as just one example.
AmVess 2y ago
Even worse? Pop the hood on one and marvel at all the empty space. Those giant front ends are purely for looks.
- tarmon 2y ago
  On the other hand that space makes it far easier to work on myself. My Subaru has almost zero free space under the hood and there are all kinds of repairs I wouldn't attempt because you have to disassemble half the engine to get to anything.
aswanson 2y ago
Recently saw a YouTube video where around 500 kids a year are killed by their own parents because they can't see them in these monstrosities.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tmnvix 2y ago
A quote from a GMC designer: "I remember wanting it to feel very locomotive - like a massive fist moving through the air" I suppose it appeals to a kind of selfish stupidity.

slifin 2y ago

It's crazy in this country SUV protestors deflate the tires I always wonder if cars that are particularly top heavy could be flipped over while parked by particularly strong pedestrians

silisili 2y ago

[flagged]

bedobi 2y ago

100% agree, and instead of showing any signs of stopping, the size increase is accelerating. Yesterday we used to joke about the trucks of today. Tomorrow, they will be twice as big.

causality0 2y ago

We need reforms to the method the EPA uses to calculate and enforce fuel efficiency requirements. It's the direct driver of the gigantifucation of vehicles.

bedobi 2y ago
Simplest thing to do would be to just tax weight (at time of purchase and yearly) and require commercial license (only obtainable with demonstrable justification like running a business that requires hauling loads every day)
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Still need to force trucks to design the front to be as pedestrian friendly as possible.
  - david-gpu 2y ago
    And ensure visibility! Those tanks on wheels can't see my children.
denkmoon 2y ago
People's desires are the direct driver of gigantification of vehicles. I assure you nobody buying a RAM or F150 gives two shits about EPA or fuel efficiency.
- kjkjadksj 2y ago
  People had no choice. When they come out with a new generation of car model they stop producing the old.
  - admax88qqq 2y ago
    There’s also still the insane 25% tariff on light trucks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax Which makes importing smaller trucks like you see in other countries cost prohibitive
    - denkmoon 2y ago
      Only the most frugal and businesses are thinking about that tariff. Ads for these excessively large "utility" vehicles (which have sacrificed bed size for cabin comfort and are often not 4WD) are very indicative. They don't talk about price (and when they do, it's focused on credit terms rather than the capital cost). They talk about power, lifestyle, and giving the perception of masculinity. That is why people buy these vehicles, and that is the mindset that drives their size.
      - shiroiushi 2y ago
        That's part of it, but not all: it depends on the buyer. People buying big trucks as a fashion statement are definitely doing it for this reason, but there's people who genuinely need trucks, and they're all bitching and complaining about 1) trucks costing $50k-100k because they're basically luxury vehicles and they don't make cheap, utilitarian versions any more, and also because all those fashion-statement buyers have driven up demand, and 2) that there aren't any small pickups available now, since many of them need a truck, but not a big truck. Some people have even taken to importing 25+ year old Japanese "kei" trucks (very very small utility trucks used in Japan) as "historic" vehicles and using those, but it seems some states are now trying to clamp down on this.
namibj 2y ago
E.g. say non-CDL trucks can only have one seat in addition to the driver's seat. Bam, SUVs are really unattractive.
HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
GWB sure did a nice favor for those corps his last couple years in office
- geysersam 2y ago
  Are you referring to some specific reform? Could you give a link? I'd like to read up on it
eru 2y ago
Yes, if by 'reform', you mean abolish. As you can see, those requirements just get gamed. Instead of complicated rules, just tax fuel (or emissions etc), and consumers will institute their own personal fuel efficiency requirements.
- beretguy 2y ago
  > just tax fuel (or emissions etc) No, because that harm small fun sports cars. The problem is big cars. Just ban big cars.
  - ponector 2y ago
    Fuel tax is the best solution. Pay as you go. More fuel you consume more emissions you produce, more distance you go, more road your wear occurs. Do you want to get 8l V8 engine? Fine, just pay your fuel taxes.
    - gnz11 2y ago
      Each US state has a gas tax already. Higher gas prices also don’t seem to stop people from buying giant trucks and SUVs.
      - AmVess 2y ago
        A reasonable well optioned truck is $75,000. People who can afford to spend that are immune from high gas prices.
        sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
        You'd be surprised how many people look only at the monthly payment amount and ignore other financial concerns when deciding on a vehicle purchase. And perhaps with some terribly long loan term like 72 or 96 months they can get that payment to "fit" in their budget.
        2y ago

complaintdept 2y ago

Actually, you'd want to get rid of those in car displays that require you to take your eyes off the road to do almost anything now, and will also spoil your night vision. There was an episode of Radiolab that was talking about this, and they made a very compelling case for it, along with those super bright headlamps that ruin your night vision when they're equipped on an oncoming vehicle. Tellingly, almost all increase in traffic accidents we've seen recently have happened at night. Pedestrian accidents with trucks haven't really gone up more than other vehicles either.

whitakerch 2y ago
You'd want to get rid of both.
lukan 2y ago
"along with those super bright headlamps that ruin your night vision when they're equipped on an oncoming vehicle." I hate them. I dream of the day, when proper night vision gear with the result displayed to the front window will be standard in cars, so all the cars can have no, or very soft lights to drive around savely at night. Also, why not heat vision to better spot humans (and animals)? For the AI as well as the humans. Is the tech military restricted? Probably partly.
- ruined 2y ago
  photonic intensifiers are ITAR controlled, but china has started manufacturing gen2 equivalents recently. digital is controlled but more widely made, but also barely worth it. the real issue is how to display it. for head-mounted setups it's essentially full field of view, and in monocular use combination is subconscious, but it's still rather awkward and requires practice. you can't achieve the same effect on a windshield, even with HUD. cadillac had this feature in the 90s, though.
  - godelski 2y ago
    This made me interested and I found a small showcase of HUDs in cars from the 1950's-1990's https://hudway.co/blog/history-of-automotive-heads-up-displays https://hudway.co/blog/history-of-automotive-heads-up-displa...

TaylorAlexander 2y ago

I recently had to borrow one of those big trucks to do some towing. Sitting in the drivers seat I felt like I was staring through a narrow slit. The nose and entire dash of the car are so high up it felt very unsettling. It seems extremely unsafe!

ThalesX 2y ago

I'm in Eastern Europe; I've only seen an "American-style" SUV once I think two decades ago. I still can't get that image out of my mind. It was like a tank in front of my car. I couldn't understand how it fits our streets, how it parks, I couldn't see around it. Just... wow, honestly. I have no idea what car it was, but it was like a huge pick-up.

jjav 2y ago
> I've only seen an "American-style" SUV once I think two decades ago. If it was ~20 years ago it wasn't even that big compared to today!
nottorp 2y ago
I once saw a F-150. It needed 3 parking spots at my eastern european local mall :) And I don't mean the driver was an asshole, it simply wouldn't have fit in otherwise.
- aswanson 2y ago
  There have been studies showing that the driver was likely an asshole. Not kidding: https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=2VnfQw_rMsZckB1I https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=2VnfQw_rMsZckB1I
  - ModernMech 2y ago
    Starts at 12:10
- CalRobert 2y ago
  The driver was an asshole for not finding somewhere else to put it.
- i80and 2y ago
  I deeply hate driving my family's F-150 for this reason. It doesn't fit in American parking spaces. Ridiculous vehicle.
- 2y ago

pantalaimon 2y ago

There was a case recently where a little girl was crushed by a SUV making a right turn at a pedestrian crossing. She was walking right behind her parents, but the driver could not see her because the vehicle was too high, so thought the road was free when the parents had passed through. The court decided that the driver was at no fault as it was impossible to see the girl from his position.

krisoft 2y ago
> The court decided that the driver was at no fault as it was impossible to see the girl from his position. I hope that means that the vehicle manufacturer is on a murder trial then. But I do not have illusions that this will lead to actual change.
- eru 2y ago
  Well, the driver should also be on the hook for driving such a dangerous machine in the first place.
  - bhickey 2y ago
    The manufacturer should be jointly liable for producing a defective vehicle.
    - erikw 2y ago
      I don't think you can legally sell a new small vehicle in the US, so the root cause is legislation that prevents this. I believe that if you could legally produce kei sized vehicles in the US, there would be a massive market for it, especially in urban environments. And I'm sure US manufacturers would be happy to sell them to all comers. Edit: Basically any car from Suzuki would be a hit in the US: https://www.suzukiauto.co.za/new-cars https://www.suzukiauto.co.za/new-cars
      - hiatus 2y ago
        > I don't think you can legally sell a new small vehicle in the US This is blatantly false. See: the Mitsubishi Mirage as just one example.

AmVess 2y ago

Even worse? Pop the hood on one and marvel at all the empty space. Those giant front ends are purely for looks.

tarmon 2y ago
On the other hand that space makes it far easier to work on myself. My Subaru has almost zero free space under the hood and there are all kinds of repairs I wouldn't attempt because you have to disassemble half the engine to get to anything.

aswanson 2y ago

Recently saw a YouTube video where around 500 kids a year are killed by their own parents because they can't see them in these monstrosities.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

tmnvix 2y ago

A quote from a GMC designer: "I remember wanting it to feel very locomotive - like a massive fist moving through the air" I suppose it appeals to a kind of selfish stupidity.