3 ms·

The type of immigration the US has experienced has changed a fair bit over those 300 years, let alone the last 50 years.

Loughla 2y ago
How? Other than it's by land instead of by sea? My immigrant grandparents came here seeking asylum from persecution in their home country. The other side all came seeking jobs. How is that different?
- zmgsabst 2y ago
  The volume of uncontrolled migration. Societies regulate the influx of strangers to protect their culture — and the rapid influx of people who don’t share cultural values has damaged American culture.
  - fwip 2y ago
    The Americas went for over 350 years (from 1500 to 1850) before there existed any kinds of controls on immigration. Americans have only ever been afraid of "uncontrolled immigration" when it was non-white immigrants. It was for racist reasons that we passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, and it's for racist reasons now.
    - zmgsabst 2y ago
      > Americans have only ever been afraid of "uncontrolled immigration" when it was non-white immigrants. This is racist revisionism. There was plenty of dislike of white migrants as well, eg, Irish, German, Polish, Italian, etc all received ethnic hatred at various periods. > it's for racist reasons now Believing that all nationalism is racism is ideological nonsense meant to poison the well, rather than address serious challenges to your ideology and the impact it has on cultures and human flourishing.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        > There was plenty of dislike of white migrants as well, eg, Irish, German, Polish, Italian, etc all received ethnic hatred at various periods. White skinned, but critically, not WASP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestants
      - fwip 2y ago
        > Believing that all nationalism is racism Sure, that would be a ridiculous thing to say, which is why I didn't. If I meant "every person who is opposed to immigration is fuelled by racial hatred," I would have said that. I thought that a good-faith reading was one of the rules of HN? If you look at the times when anti-immigrant sentiment is highest, whether via popular opinion or governmental action, it directly corresponds to when Americans were the most racist about the arriving immigrants.
    - derivagral 2y ago
      > when it was non-white immigrants Irish and Italians in my area would beg to differ. I'll grant it wasn't federal policy, at least.
      - krapp 2y ago
        Irish and Italians weren't always considered white.
        tacocataco 2y ago
        Hate.... finds a way.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/immigrant-population-over-time https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/imm... Going by this chart (the first thing in google), the percent of immigrants between 1850 and 1930 was about the same as 2000-on, with a dip in the middle.
    - zmgsabst 2y ago
      That period led to increasing ethnic tensions and a demand to restrict immigration to protect cultural continuity, as well. Eg, this. [0] Why are people surprised by a similar outcome this time? [0] - https://history.state.gov/milestones/1921-1936/immigration-act https://history.state.gov/milestones/1921-1936/immigration-a...
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
        Were tensions rising for 80 years straight? Or more, since the chart doesn't go before 1850? If not, what was different between 1850 and 1900?
- sanex 2y ago
  I think the mentality is different. Our great grandparents did their best to make sure the kids spoke great English and tried to get them to become American as possible. Today we encourage the kids to speak their mother tongue. Sure it's great for job prospects and to keep it's not about what language they speak as much as the mentality about becoming an American and leaving the home country behind.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    Every new wave of immigrants in the US has had this criticism levied at them, from the Germans (https://www.history.com/news/anti-german-sentiment-wwi https://www.history.com/news/anti-german-sentiment-wwi) to the Irish (https://www.history.com/news/when-america-despised-the-irish-the-19th-centurys-refugee-crisis https://www.history.com/news/when-america-despised-the-irish...) to the Chinese (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act) to the Indians to the Italians (https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2015/januaryfebruary/feature/what-sets-italian-americans-other-immigrants https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2015/januaryfebruary/feature/...) to the Poles (https://www.nytimes.com/1976/03/25/archives/polishamericans-mounting-counterdrive-against-stereotyping.html https://www.nytimes.com/1976/03/25/archives/polishamericans-...). Every one of those waves saw the second and third generation speak English and be heavily Americanized. It always happens.
    - sanex 2y ago
      You're probably right and I'm just drawing conclusions I shouldn't based on one aspect of my personal experience being married to an immigrant.
tacocataco 2y ago
"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus#Text https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus#Text

Loughla 2y ago

How? Other than it's by land instead of by sea? My immigrant grandparents came here seeking asylum from persecution in their home country. The other side all came seeking jobs. How is that different?

zmgsabst 2y ago
The volume of uncontrolled migration. Societies regulate the influx of strangers to protect their culture — and the rapid influx of people who don’t share cultural values has damaged American culture.
- fwip 2y ago
  The Americas went for over 350 years (from 1500 to 1850) before there existed any kinds of controls on immigration. Americans have only ever been afraid of "uncontrolled immigration" when it was non-white immigrants. It was for racist reasons that we passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, and it's for racist reasons now.
  - zmgsabst 2y ago
    > Americans have only ever been afraid of "uncontrolled immigration" when it was non-white immigrants. This is racist revisionism. There was plenty of dislike of white migrants as well, eg, Irish, German, Polish, Italian, etc all received ethnic hatred at various periods. > it's for racist reasons now Believing that all nationalism is racism is ideological nonsense meant to poison the well, rather than address serious challenges to your ideology and the impact it has on cultures and human flourishing.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      > There was plenty of dislike of white migrants as well, eg, Irish, German, Polish, Italian, etc all received ethnic hatred at various periods. White skinned, but critically, not WASP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestants
    - fwip 2y ago
      > Believing that all nationalism is racism Sure, that would be a ridiculous thing to say, which is why I didn't. If I meant "every person who is opposed to immigration is fuelled by racial hatred," I would have said that. I thought that a good-faith reading was one of the rules of HN? If you look at the times when anti-immigrant sentiment is highest, whether via popular opinion or governmental action, it directly corresponds to when Americans were the most racist about the arriving immigrants.
  - derivagral 2y ago
    > when it was non-white immigrants Irish and Italians in my area would beg to differ. I'll grant it wasn't federal policy, at least.
    - krapp 2y ago
      Irish and Italians weren't always considered white.
      - tacocataco 2y ago
        Hate.... finds a way.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/immigrant-population-over-time https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/imm... Going by this chart (the first thing in google), the percent of immigrants between 1850 and 1930 was about the same as 2000-on, with a dip in the middle.
  - zmgsabst 2y ago
    That period led to increasing ethnic tensions and a demand to restrict immigration to protect cultural continuity, as well. Eg, this. [0] Why are people surprised by a similar outcome this time? [0] - https://history.state.gov/milestones/1921-1936/immigration-act https://history.state.gov/milestones/1921-1936/immigration-a...
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      Were tensions rising for 80 years straight? Or more, since the chart doesn't go before 1850? If not, what was different between 1850 and 1900?
sanex 2y ago
I think the mentality is different. Our great grandparents did their best to make sure the kids spoke great English and tried to get them to become American as possible. Today we encourage the kids to speak their mother tongue. Sure it's great for job prospects and to keep it's not about what language they speak as much as the mentality about becoming an American and leaving the home country behind.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  Every new wave of immigrants in the US has had this criticism levied at them, from the Germans (https://www.history.com/news/anti-german-sentiment-wwi https://www.history.com/news/anti-german-sentiment-wwi) to the Irish (https://www.history.com/news/when-america-despised-the-irish-the-19th-centurys-refugee-crisis https://www.history.com/news/when-america-despised-the-irish...) to the Chinese (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act) to the Indians to the Italians (https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2015/januaryfebruary/feature/what-sets-italian-americans-other-immigrants https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2015/januaryfebruary/feature/...) to the Poles (https://www.nytimes.com/1976/03/25/archives/polishamericans-mounting-counterdrive-against-stereotyping.html https://www.nytimes.com/1976/03/25/archives/polishamericans-...). Every one of those waves saw the second and third generation speak English and be heavily Americanized. It always happens.
  - sanex 2y ago
    You're probably right and I'm just drawing conclusions I shouldn't based on one aspect of my personal experience being married to an immigrant.

tacocataco 2y ago

"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus#Text https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus#Text