4 ms·

>> founder and CEO of Palisade Compliance, an independent Oracle licensing advisory company. What a world we live in when there's a market for a company provid

>> founder and CEO of Palisade Compliance, an independent Oracle licensing advisory company. What a world we live in when there's a market for a company providing this service. Oracle is truly a disgusting company. They offer a very generous cloud computing package but you'd have to be insane to build on it.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
burnte 2y ago
> They offer a very generous cloud computing package but you'd have to be insane to build on it. Absolutely. I've seen companies get into major trouble building on Oracle products, then when renewal time comes the prices triple and they literally can't afford it. One company I consulted with in 2000 just shut down rather than renew with Oracle. They were a smallish startup and the Oracle costs blew the budget out of the water, they decided to just kill that idea. And Salesforce is the same. Great product, viscous company. I had a major row with then in '21 over licensing fees during contract renewal negotiations. Details aside, the exec I dealt with made it clear they felt they had us over a barrel and had zero desire to help us. I said if we can't even get some flexibility we'll have to move to another product. He literally laughed at me and said he didn't care. So I moved the entire company to a competitor in 45 days. He sent an email a few days before the signing deadline asking when I'd sign it, I said, "we're on another product now so we won't be renewing. You're free to terminate our account at any time. We've removed all sensitive data already." He called my cell several times a day for two weeks after that. I never answered.
- zeroCalories 2y ago
  Sounds like hell. When I feel a sales or business person trying to manipulate me something shuts off in my brain and I just stop talking to them. Maybe the difference is just the skill of the manipulator, but I infinitely prefer it when people are talking candidly about the situation without mind games.
  - lmm 2y ago
    > Maybe the difference is just the skill of the manipulator, but I infinitely prefer it when people are talking candidly about the situation without mind games. Isn't that exactly what this guy did? Didn't try to pretend to be a friend, told GP honestly what he was doing.
    - zeroCalories 2y ago
      I don't think so. He seemed to change his tune when GP actually did cancelled the contract. Besides that, it's obvious they're able to offer a lower price, but they tried bluffing. Very annoying and manipulative behavior.
      - burnte 2y ago
        Our major ask, the one ask we simply could not go without was payment arrangements. They insisted that the entire year was due at once, and literally would not entertain discussions about quarterly payments. The point where he laughed at me was, "When you get this year's invoice, write a check for it, send it in, there's you're payment plan." That was when I just changed products. It was an intense 45 days but we launched about 2 weeks early.
- alangibson 2y ago
  Damn that must have felt good watching those calls go to voicemail
  - burnte 2y ago
    Incredibly good. He kept wanting to know who we moved to and how we did it. I never told him.
- neilv 2y ago
  Awesome response to Salesforce. I wonder whether the exec had to explain to anyone how they lost the account.
  - burnte 2y ago
    Last year I was brought into another cancellation negotiation with another client. On the second call I was on they apparently had researched me, and asking if I was [my name] from [former company]. I said yes and whatever they heard about me was probably true. I guess I have a reputation there now. I'm ok with that.
    - tandr 2y ago
      Did it help with negotiations?
      - burnte 2y ago
        Significantly. I can't talk raw terms, but we were able to buy our way out at significant savings.
        tandr 2y ago
        Raw terms are not that important in the context of this story, it is great to hear as it is :). Thank you!
- soulbadguy 2y ago
  Oracle has had a pretty bad reputation since i got into tech more than 20 years ago. But somehow, they are still able to surprise me how predatory they can be...
- tandr 2y ago
  Great story! I wish it would be always possible to move something from one platform to another in 45 days, but if someone could do it, there is a hope. Would you be kind and share what competitor did you choose at that time? Thank you.
drewda 2y ago
FWIW, there are also firms that advise companies on how to negotiate licenses with Microsoft -- for example https://www.directionsonmicrosoft.com/ https://www.directionsonmicrosoft.com/
orev 2y ago
There are plenty of companies who also help manage the costs of AWS. Does this mean the HN crowd feels the same about that as they do Oracle?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

burnte 2y ago

> They offer a very generous cloud computing package but you'd have to be insane to build on it. Absolutely. I've seen companies get into major trouble building on Oracle products, then when renewal time comes the prices triple and they literally can't afford it. One company I consulted with in 2000 just shut down rather than renew with Oracle. They were a smallish startup and the Oracle costs blew the budget out of the water, they decided to just kill that idea. And Salesforce is the same. Great product, viscous company. I had a major row with then in '21 over licensing fees during contract renewal negotiations. Details aside, the exec I dealt with made it clear they felt they had us over a barrel and had zero desire to help us. I said if we can't even get some flexibility we'll have to move to another product. He literally laughed at me and said he didn't care. So I moved the entire company to a competitor in 45 days. He sent an email a few days before the signing deadline asking when I'd sign it, I said, "we're on another product now so we won't be renewing. You're free to terminate our account at any time. We've removed all sensitive data already." He called my cell several times a day for two weeks after that. I never answered.

zeroCalories 2y ago
Sounds like hell. When I feel a sales or business person trying to manipulate me something shuts off in my brain and I just stop talking to them. Maybe the difference is just the skill of the manipulator, but I infinitely prefer it when people are talking candidly about the situation without mind games.
- lmm 2y ago
  > Maybe the difference is just the skill of the manipulator, but I infinitely prefer it when people are talking candidly about the situation without mind games. Isn't that exactly what this guy did? Didn't try to pretend to be a friend, told GP honestly what he was doing.
  - zeroCalories 2y ago
    I don't think so. He seemed to change his tune when GP actually did cancelled the contract. Besides that, it's obvious they're able to offer a lower price, but they tried bluffing. Very annoying and manipulative behavior.
    - burnte 2y ago
      Our major ask, the one ask we simply could not go without was payment arrangements. They insisted that the entire year was due at once, and literally would not entertain discussions about quarterly payments. The point where he laughed at me was, "When you get this year's invoice, write a check for it, send it in, there's you're payment plan." That was when I just changed products. It was an intense 45 days but we launched about 2 weeks early.
alangibson 2y ago
Damn that must have felt good watching those calls go to voicemail
- burnte 2y ago
  Incredibly good. He kept wanting to know who we moved to and how we did it. I never told him.
neilv 2y ago
Awesome response to Salesforce. I wonder whether the exec had to explain to anyone how they lost the account.
- burnte 2y ago
  Last year I was brought into another cancellation negotiation with another client. On the second call I was on they apparently had researched me, and asking if I was [my name] from [former company]. I said yes and whatever they heard about me was probably true. I guess I have a reputation there now. I'm ok with that.
  - tandr 2y ago
    Did it help with negotiations?
    - burnte 2y ago
      Significantly. I can't talk raw terms, but we were able to buy our way out at significant savings.
      - tandr 2y ago
        Raw terms are not that important in the context of this story, it is great to hear as it is :). Thank you!
soulbadguy 2y ago
Oracle has had a pretty bad reputation since i got into tech more than 20 years ago. But somehow, they are still able to surprise me how predatory they can be...
tandr 2y ago
Great story! I wish it would be always possible to move something from one platform to another in 45 days, but if someone could do it, there is a hope. Would you be kind and share what competitor did you choose at that time? Thank you.

drewda 2y ago

FWIW, there are also firms that advise companies on how to negotiate licenses with Microsoft -- for example https://www.directionsonmicrosoft.com/ https://www.directionsonmicrosoft.com/

orev 2y ago

There are plenty of companies who also help manage the costs of AWS. Does this mean the HN crowd feels the same about that as they do Oracle?