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Should have called it Sherlock as they seem to be Sherlocking a lot of apps. For instance I only use Fantastical because I can see my reminders with my events,

Should have called it Sherlock as they seem to be Sherlocking a lot of apps. For instance I only use Fantastical because I can see my reminders with my events, I assume many people will also switch from a paid password manager to this as well.

woah 2y ago
I'm guessing (and Apple is probably betting) that far more new users of Passwords will be switching from not having used a password manager at all, not switching from a different password manager. I pay for Bitwarden, and will probably continue doing so because I can't be bothered to switch.
- yunwal 2y ago
  Also until Passwords is easily usable on non-Apple devices, there’ll be a place for password managers.
  - thirdsun 2y ago
    I think they mentioned it will be available on Windows via iCloud for Windows. But yes, seems like a second class platform for the app.
maronato 2y ago
My thought exactly. Today must’ve been a sad day for many app developers.
makeitdouble 2y ago
Can you use an arbitrary account in the new password app ? The screenshots had no indication of it, and it doesn't seem to have a web counterpart. One of the major PITA for keychain was the association with your logged in AppleID. If it 's still that way, I don't see a real appeal for people who already went their way to pay for a full-fledge product. Imagine killing your phone and asking a nearby friend to borrow theirs to quickly cancel an appointment to give you time to deal with it. That's the kind of situation that should be gracefully handled by a password manager service.
akagr 2y ago
I don’t see myself switching from 1password simply because I don’t think Apple passwords autofill will work natively with non-safari browsers or Linux, both of which I also use. Also, I find the handy 1password mini source pretty convenient.
- ssbash 2y ago
  Other browsers could add support for the native macOS password autofill apis (introduced back in 2020 in macOS Big Sur). So far both Chrome[1] and Firefox[2] have refused to add support. [1] https://issues.chromium.org/issues/40744291#comment15 https://issues.chromium.org/issues/40744291#comment15 [2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1650212 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1650212
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    That exchange with Vas (on the Chrome side) was more than a little frustrating. "Chrome isn't just an App, it's a password provider. We're not throwing that away for Apple." I don't think that was anyone's intention. Just to support filling passwords from other sources. But he locked into a single use case that was a straw man. "I can understand how some users might want that. That's not a priority for us."
- djxfade 2y ago
  It already works for Chrome. Apple has an official extension. However, it’s a bit annoying since you need to authenticate each new browser session with MFA
  - lloeki 2y ago
    That one? TIL https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/icloud-passwords/pejdijmoenmkgeppbflobdenhhabjlaj https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/icloud-passwords/pe... > The iCloud Passwords extension is compatible with macOS Sonoma and Windows versions supported by the iCloud for Windows app. To enable the extension on a PC, download the iCloud for Windows app from the Microsoft Store and enable iCloud Passwords. So AIUI no Linux? (vested interest as that would be my use case) > However, it’s a bit annoying since you need to authenticate each new browser session with MFA Well I'd be annoyed if iCloud-stored passwords weren't protected by MFA. Tangent: I wish the EU would crack down on behemoths that borderline on being utility providers to publish protocol docs on grounds of: a) auditability b) interoperability One can dream...
amelius 2y ago
Isn't it illegal to push your own products by bundling them with other products?
- WillPostForFood 2y ago
  It is not illegal to push your own products by bundling them with other products. Both MacOS and Windows have dozens or hundreds of their own bundled products.
- mpalmer 2y ago
  They're not even charging for these things, what's the objection exactly?
- adamors 2y ago
  Well Apple has been doing this since forever > Watson became very popular, and stayed that way right until Apple released Mac OS X 10.2 with Sherlock 3. In that release, Apple added just about everything Watson could do to Sherlock's own interface.
- arresin 2y ago
  Yeah I think that's what MS was doing before one of their antitrust lawsuits.
- macintux 2y ago
  That can result in anti-trust action if you have a monopoly, which isn't true for Apple in the U.S. The EU has different rules which I don't pretend to understand.
agent86 2y ago
Math Notes certainly appears to be moving into Soulver/Numi territory. I'm a bit surprised by this one as while I personally love Soulver I didn't know how appealing it would be to Apple's overall user base.
- JZL003 2y ago
  I was going to say too, I love literate-calc in org mode but it's all pretty niche and not a well developed set of sofwtare https://github.com/sulami/literate-calc-mode.el https://github.com/sulami/literate-calc-mode.el
runako 2y ago
Isn't the Passwords app essentially just existing features of the OSes extracted into an app? Or does it add new capabilities as well (other than obviously the Windows app)?
- jerbear4328 2y ago
  The Windows app already existed, actually, as part of iCloud for Windows. It uses a Chrome extension for autofill. https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud-windows/set-up-icloud-passwords-icw2babf5e03/icloud https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud-windows/set-up-icloud...
twixfel 2y ago
Honestly, I support it. I got burnt by Tijme Gommers selling Raivo to someone shady and getting all my passwords locked behind a subscription (and subsequently lost). I don't want to have to check once a day to see if my TOTP app has been sold to some guy in Morocco and my passwords monetised.

woah 2y ago

I'm guessing (and Apple is probably betting) that far more new users of Passwords will be switching from not having used a password manager at all, not switching from a different password manager. I pay for Bitwarden, and will probably continue doing so because I can't be bothered to switch.

yunwal 2y ago
Also until Passwords is easily usable on non-Apple devices, there’ll be a place for password managers.
- thirdsun 2y ago
  I think they mentioned it will be available on Windows via iCloud for Windows. But yes, seems like a second class platform for the app.

maronato 2y ago

My thought exactly. Today must’ve been a sad day for many app developers.

makeitdouble 2y ago

Can you use an arbitrary account in the new password app ? The screenshots had no indication of it, and it doesn't seem to have a web counterpart. One of the major PITA for keychain was the association with your logged in AppleID. If it 's still that way, I don't see a real appeal for people who already went their way to pay for a full-fledge product. Imagine killing your phone and asking a nearby friend to borrow theirs to quickly cancel an appointment to give you time to deal with it. That's the kind of situation that should be gracefully handled by a password manager service.

akagr 2y ago

I don’t see myself switching from 1password simply because I don’t think Apple passwords autofill will work natively with non-safari browsers or Linux, both of which I also use. Also, I find the handy 1password mini source pretty convenient.

ssbash 2y ago
Other browsers could add support for the native macOS password autofill apis (introduced back in 2020 in macOS Big Sur). So far both Chrome[1] and Firefox[2] have refused to add support. [1] https://issues.chromium.org/issues/40744291#comment15 https://issues.chromium.org/issues/40744291#comment15 [2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1650212 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1650212
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  That exchange with Vas (on the Chrome side) was more than a little frustrating. "Chrome isn't just an App, it's a password provider. We're not throwing that away for Apple." I don't think that was anyone's intention. Just to support filling passwords from other sources. But he locked into a single use case that was a straw man. "I can understand how some users might want that. That's not a priority for us."
djxfade 2y ago
It already works for Chrome. Apple has an official extension. However, it’s a bit annoying since you need to authenticate each new browser session with MFA
- lloeki 2y ago
  That one? TIL https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/icloud-passwords/pejdijmoenmkgeppbflobdenhhabjlaj https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/icloud-passwords/pe... > The iCloud Passwords extension is compatible with macOS Sonoma and Windows versions supported by the iCloud for Windows app. To enable the extension on a PC, download the iCloud for Windows app from the Microsoft Store and enable iCloud Passwords. So AIUI no Linux? (vested interest as that would be my use case) > However, it’s a bit annoying since you need to authenticate each new browser session with MFA Well I'd be annoyed if iCloud-stored passwords weren't protected by MFA. Tangent: I wish the EU would crack down on behemoths that borderline on being utility providers to publish protocol docs on grounds of: a) auditability b) interoperability One can dream...

amelius 2y ago

Isn't it illegal to push your own products by bundling them with other products?

WillPostForFood 2y ago
It is not illegal to push your own products by bundling them with other products. Both MacOS and Windows have dozens or hundreds of their own bundled products.
mpalmer 2y ago
They're not even charging for these things, what's the objection exactly?
adamors 2y ago
Well Apple has been doing this since forever > Watson became very popular, and stayed that way right until Apple released Mac OS X 10.2 with Sherlock 3. In that release, Apple added just about everything Watson could do to Sherlock's own interface.
arresin 2y ago
Yeah I think that's what MS was doing before one of their antitrust lawsuits.
macintux 2y ago
That can result in anti-trust action if you have a monopoly, which isn't true for Apple in the U.S. The EU has different rules which I don't pretend to understand.

agent86 2y ago

Math Notes certainly appears to be moving into Soulver/Numi territory. I'm a bit surprised by this one as while I personally love Soulver I didn't know how appealing it would be to Apple's overall user base.

JZL003 2y ago
I was going to say too, I love literate-calc in org mode but it's all pretty niche and not a well developed set of sofwtare https://github.com/sulami/literate-calc-mode.el https://github.com/sulami/literate-calc-mode.el

runako 2y ago

Isn't the Passwords app essentially just existing features of the OSes extracted into an app? Or does it add new capabilities as well (other than obviously the Windows app)?

jerbear4328 2y ago
The Windows app already existed, actually, as part of iCloud for Windows. It uses a Chrome extension for autofill. https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud-windows/set-up-icloud-passwords-icw2babf5e03/icloud https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud-windows/set-up-icloud...

twixfel 2y ago

Honestly, I support it. I got burnt by Tijme Gommers selling Raivo to someone shady and getting all my passwords locked behind a subscription (and subsequently lost). I don't want to have to check once a day to see if my TOTP app has been sold to some guy in Morocco and my passwords monetised.