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I appreciate that the version they indirectly encouraged you to use by rejecting the other one is much more clear about how you not only don't store anything, b

I appreciate that the version they indirectly encouraged you to use by rejecting the other one is much more clear about how you not only don't store anything, but don't collect anything. For the pedanticists here which might argue you can't collect anything without storing it, I suspect there's a lot of wiggle room there (even if only in the developers mind and not legally), and the additional information is useful to guard against that. For example, getting paid to receive and forward data, or to send it directly to a third party may be something a developer could do and thing they are complying with "we don't store your data". Technically correct, probably not legally correct, but unlikely to matter legally unless noticed and they are sued. Much better to be explicit about things as long as it's still easily readable.

refulgentis 2y ago
It's cute, but: it's a lie. Data is stored. We (privacy advocates) won, there's legislation now, this stuff is real, The Man cares. You can't handwave, saying you don't "store" or "collect", or whatever verb you like that, to you, means "we don't do anything bad" -- when you're in that territory, ex. Google's privacy policy becomes "we don't sell your data" --- can you imagine? There's precious few applications that don't "store", "collect", etc. The other move I see is people going with "we don't store/collect data": I assume they're trying to claim they don't store data server-side, but very frequently in my experience, they are are storing data server-side, just what they perceived as trivial (ex. cloud sync when the product is cloud only, that's not "we" storing "your data", it's us syncing because you asked!) If you feel good & witty writing your privacy policy, and end up with a single sentence one, something went wrong. If you're sufficiently small you'll probably get away with it, but...ugh. This also presents a significant opportunity: it's hard to find a good privacy policy, that actually handles all the regulatory obligations you now have as a developer, and isn't just legalese amounting to "We take it, keep it, let us know if we should get rid of it"
- atum47 2y ago
  I honestly packed all the code inside of a APK and distribute it via Google app store. I make no request to get out send any data. How am I collecting or storing any data?
  - refulgentis 2y ago
    > no request to get out send any data Correct: that means you are not relaying data to a network, or retrieving data from a network. Your claim was "We don't store your data, period." I can't know for sure, but for the vast majority of applications, data is stored somewhere, be it on the device, or on the server. High scores? Game state? Levels completed? You sure you're not storing data? That's why it was rejected. Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're doing anything shady, I don't think you're doing it in the general terms people worry about, I very much doubt anyone will find out, or care if they did. It's just a useful example of something that plays well in the HN comments section but not in the real world, I didn't even realize until a few months back. These are de facto legal statements now. Every store requires them, and they're not paying a lawyer to double check them for you. You can get away with it on side project games, but it's not something you can get away with at a business.
    - kbenson 2y ago
      > It's just a useful example of something that plays well in the HN comments section but not in the real world I take it you're referring to the earlier, short one, of "We don't store your data, period." If that's the case, I think you're saying the same thing I did in a slightly different way and emphasizing different points? I agree, there's a prevalence of people that see simple and direct and make the mistake of equating simple with useful. Something being simple can be good, but not at the expense of greatly increasing the ambiguity of what it applies to.
    - atum47 2y ago
      Not on my device or my server. On yours? Sure, you've downloaded the app, it stores both code and assets, also highscores.

refulgentis 2y ago

It's cute, but: it's a lie. Data is stored. We (privacy advocates) won, there's legislation now, this stuff is real, The Man cares. You can't handwave, saying you don't "store" or "collect", or whatever verb you like that, to you, means "we don't do anything bad" -- when you're in that territory, ex. Google's privacy policy becomes "we don't sell your data" --- can you imagine? There's precious few applications that don't "store", "collect", etc. The other move I see is people going with "we don't store/collect data": I assume they're trying to claim they don't store data server-side, but very frequently in my experience, they are are storing data server-side, just what they perceived as trivial (ex. cloud sync when the product is cloud only, that's not "we" storing "your data", it's us syncing because you asked!) If you feel good & witty writing your privacy policy, and end up with a single sentence one, something went wrong. If you're sufficiently small you'll probably get away with it, but...ugh. This also presents a significant opportunity: it's hard to find a good privacy policy, that actually handles all the regulatory obligations you now have as a developer, and isn't just legalese amounting to "We take it, keep it, let us know if we should get rid of it"

atum47 2y ago
I honestly packed all the code inside of a APK and distribute it via Google app store. I make no request to get out send any data. How am I collecting or storing any data?
- refulgentis 2y ago
  > no request to get out send any data Correct: that means you are not relaying data to a network, or retrieving data from a network. Your claim was "We don't store your data, period." I can't know for sure, but for the vast majority of applications, data is stored somewhere, be it on the device, or on the server. High scores? Game state? Levels completed? You sure you're not storing data? That's why it was rejected. Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're doing anything shady, I don't think you're doing it in the general terms people worry about, I very much doubt anyone will find out, or care if they did. It's just a useful example of something that plays well in the HN comments section but not in the real world, I didn't even realize until a few months back. These are de facto legal statements now. Every store requires them, and they're not paying a lawyer to double check them for you. You can get away with it on side project games, but it's not something you can get away with at a business.
  - kbenson 2y ago
    > It's just a useful example of something that plays well in the HN comments section but not in the real world I take it you're referring to the earlier, short one, of "We don't store your data, period." If that's the case, I think you're saying the same thing I did in a slightly different way and emphasizing different points? I agree, there's a prevalence of people that see simple and direct and make the mistake of equating simple with useful. Something being simple can be good, but not at the expense of greatly increasing the ambiguity of what it applies to.
  - atum47 2y ago
    Not on my device or my server. On yours? Sure, you've downloaded the app, it stores both code and assets, also highscores.