7 ms·

It is incredible how bad we are, at the end of the first quarter of 21st century, at having a well planned and executed strategy to improve mental health of peo

by aljgz 2y ago

It is incredible how bad we are, at the end of the first quarter of 21st century, at having a well planned and executed strategy to improve mental health of people. Compare it to physical health. For instance, everyone is advised to take regular tests (like blood tests). While things can still be improved a lot, this simple proactive measure helps detect many health problems before they cause serious damage. For mental health, we don't do anything until the person is fed up with their struggles and maybe asks for professional help. Even then, in most cases we do not start with a "Triage" process. It took me a long time to even realize that there should be a mental health questionnaire, and ask my psychologist for it. We leave individuals to learn about mental health and take care of it, while there is not even a clear starting point for anyone who wants to learn. Mental health problems, like viral infections, can be contagious. Unlike viral infections, one person with one mental health issue infects others with different types of mental health issues than the one they have. It is incredible how much happiness/productivity/economic value is lost to mental health issues that are manageable with our current knowledge. If our collective goal for the society is to maximize a measure of overall happiness (which I think is a really decent goal), we need to have a better plan. Maybe advances in AI can bring proactive mental health monitoring to more people.

jahewson 2y ago
A worthy goal We’re not even close to that, though. The various depression questionnaires used in research haven’t been updated in decades and the questions on them have little overlap. A long way to go.
logifail 2y ago
> Compare it to physical health. For instance, everyone is advised to take regular tests (like blood tests). While things can still be improved a lot, this simple proactive measure helps detect many health problems before they cause serious damage. Q: How many people actually take regular blood tests?
- gravescale 2y ago
  In the UK, only people on certain treatments or under non-interventional observation that require it or private patients. Regular blood tests for normal children and adults (other than the elderly perhaps?) on a purely speculative basis are not a thing. Edit: actually you do get a 5-yearly test after the age of 40 until 65, my mistake. This incudes a finger-prick cholesterol and blood sugar test and may incude a "real" blood test if thought necessary.
- Aeolun 2y ago
  Nearly every working person in Japan. It’s mandated by law to get a yearly checkup from your employer, and family is covered too if they don’t have their own. Part of the (quite extensive) checkup is a blood test.
jimkleiber 2y ago
I think most cultures have beliefs/norms for the suppression of emotion that influence our health more than we may realize. If we want to optimize for happiness, how do we do so without feeling sadness? Or fear? Anger? If I feel very happy with something, I will probably feel very sad if it is gone, afraid it will leave, angry if it gets taken away. So I think more than physical health, there are hidden cultural forces that interfere with our desire for emotional health. Heck, we even call it mental health more than emotional health probably because of cultural dislike of "emotion." I won't even go into how attitudes in favor of monogamy may contribute lol.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  Maybe it's the opposite though? The past century in the west was an age of relinquishing many of the "hidden cultural forces", including in particular "beliefs/norms for the suppression of emotion". Are we better off for it? Could it be the case that those older cultures had some of this stuff figured out right, or at least better than we have today.
  - jimkleiber 2y ago
    Sure I think it's possible. I'm curious, do you have any specific examples in mind that might be in line with your argument?
hansworst 2y ago
On the flip side: in some cases there are downsides to regular checkups, in particular false positive diagnoses leading to medical operations causing more harm on a population level than if the checkups hadn’t been done in the first place. Unfortunately our medical practices aren’t always good enough yet where doing early checkups at a large scale actually prevent harm. Combine this with the sometimes shoddy diagnostics processes in mental health, and suddenly it doesn’t seem too weird to me that we avoid poking too much until people complain themselves. I think that if we were to ask people to fill out every mental health questionnaire that exists, most people would likely test positive for some disorders. But if those symptoms are not causing unmanageable harm in people’s lives, and given the current state of treatments (not nearly always effective), I think we should think twice before subjecting everyone to a list of mental health questionnaires.
- htamas 2y ago
  There are questionnaires and tests in forensic psychology that are almost impossible to fake or get false positives from, like the MMPI-2. It’s explained beautifully here: https://youtu.be/lLXcZZiecys?si=KmxSVPYQSXRbBJyr https://youtu.be/lLXcZZiecys?si=KmxSVPYQSXRbBJyr
surfingdino 2y ago
> Maybe advances in AI can bring proactive mental health monitoring to more people. And how would proactive mental health monitoring work in practice?
taylorius 2y ago
"Maybe advances in AI can bring proactive mental health monitoring to more people." Not sure I like the sound of that... bit dystopian sounding.

by aljgz 2y ago

jahewson 2y ago

A worthy goal We’re not even close to that, though. The various depression questionnaires used in research haven’t been updated in decades and the questions on them have little overlap. A long way to go.

logifail 2y ago

> Compare it to physical health. For instance, everyone is advised to take regular tests (like blood tests). While things can still be improved a lot, this simple proactive measure helps detect many health problems before they cause serious damage. Q: How many people actually take regular blood tests?

gravescale 2y ago
In the UK, only people on certain treatments or under non-interventional observation that require it or private patients. Regular blood tests for normal children and adults (other than the elderly perhaps?) on a purely speculative basis are not a thing. Edit: actually you do get a 5-yearly test after the age of 40 until 65, my mistake. This incudes a finger-prick cholesterol and blood sugar test and may incude a "real" blood test if thought necessary.
Aeolun 2y ago
Nearly every working person in Japan. It’s mandated by law to get a yearly checkup from your employer, and family is covered too if they don’t have their own. Part of the (quite extensive) checkup is a blood test.

jimkleiber 2y ago

I think most cultures have beliefs/norms for the suppression of emotion that influence our health more than we may realize. If we want to optimize for happiness, how do we do so without feeling sadness? Or fear? Anger? If I feel very happy with something, I will probably feel very sad if it is gone, afraid it will leave, angry if it gets taken away. So I think more than physical health, there are hidden cultural forces that interfere with our desire for emotional health. Heck, we even call it mental health more than emotional health probably because of cultural dislike of "emotion." I won't even go into how attitudes in favor of monogamy may contribute lol.

TeMPOraL 2y ago
Maybe it's the opposite though? The past century in the west was an age of relinquishing many of the "hidden cultural forces", including in particular "beliefs/norms for the suppression of emotion". Are we better off for it? Could it be the case that those older cultures had some of this stuff figured out right, or at least better than we have today.
- jimkleiber 2y ago
  Sure I think it's possible. I'm curious, do you have any specific examples in mind that might be in line with your argument?

hansworst 2y ago

On the flip side: in some cases there are downsides to regular checkups, in particular false positive diagnoses leading to medical operations causing more harm on a population level than if the checkups hadn’t been done in the first place. Unfortunately our medical practices aren’t always good enough yet where doing early checkups at a large scale actually prevent harm. Combine this with the sometimes shoddy diagnostics processes in mental health, and suddenly it doesn’t seem too weird to me that we avoid poking too much until people complain themselves. I think that if we were to ask people to fill out every mental health questionnaire that exists, most people would likely test positive for some disorders. But if those symptoms are not causing unmanageable harm in people’s lives, and given the current state of treatments (not nearly always effective), I think we should think twice before subjecting everyone to a list of mental health questionnaires.

htamas 2y ago
There are questionnaires and tests in forensic psychology that are almost impossible to fake or get false positives from, like the MMPI-2. It’s explained beautifully here: https://youtu.be/lLXcZZiecys?si=KmxSVPYQSXRbBJyr https://youtu.be/lLXcZZiecys?si=KmxSVPYQSXRbBJyr

surfingdino 2y ago

> Maybe advances in AI can bring proactive mental health monitoring to more people. And how would proactive mental health monitoring work in practice?

taylorius 2y ago

"Maybe advances in AI can bring proactive mental health monitoring to more people." Not sure I like the sound of that... bit dystopian sounding.