6 ms·

Wasn't this class of medication originally for cardiovascular issues, and the whole ED mitigation was a happy marketable accident?

mikercampbell 2y ago
I vaguely recall an anecdote about athletes using it for performance improvement, and getting a slightly different stat buff
- brandall10 2y ago
  It's commonly used in bodybuilding competitions.
  - lukan 2y ago
    Now I cannot get that picture out of my head. A crowd full of bodybuilders in tight shorts and all on Viagra doing workouts. Each to his own I guess..
    - idiotsecant 2y ago
      I'm pretty sure you don't just get random erections unless you're engaged in activity that you find sexually stimulating. ...so yes, probably.
      - rs_rs_rs_rs_rs 2y ago
        > I'm pretty sure you don't just get random erections unless you're engaged in activity that you find sexually stimulating I think that's the case for Cialis but Viagra should make you "pop" regardless of what activity you're doing.
        Frost1x 2y ago
        That’s not how it works at all. As someone with recent onset of ED taking viagra regularly, it’s been fantastic but it just makes me function like I should. It takes about an hour to take effect (usually less for me) and lasts a little over 4 hours with some lingering effects for several hours later, with diminishing effects towards the 4 and above hours. If I’m sexually stimulated during that time physically and or mentally, everything works like it should (erection). If during that time even when I would normally see peak effects around the 50 min to 90 min mark I’m driving or doing taxes or whatever non-sexually stimulating activity one might do, no erection at all.
        throwup238 2y ago
        You don’t get turned on by Schedule K-1 Form 1065? Nothing gets me hornier than correctly accounting for capital equipment depreciation.
        kwhitefoot 2y ago
        > Viagra should make you "pop" regardless of what activity you're doing. No it doesn't. It simply makes the effect of sexual stimulation more effective. If you body is not trying to engorge the penis it has little to no effect on that part of you. At least that is my experience of taking it.
      - Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
        Isn't random erections a requirement for healthy genitalia in males?
        pcthrowaway 2y ago
        Not exactly 'random'. I mean, typically it would be during periods of relaxation and certain stages of sleep. Adult males in their 30s or older very rarely just get a random erection with no physical or mental stimulation while going about their business.
    - rs_rs_rs_rs_rs 2y ago
      Bodybuilders at competition time have very low body fat and are very dehidrated, it's never an "issue".
      - Iulioh 2y ago
        And really big hormonal issues caused by the low body fat. Bodybuilders (in the months before competing, while cutting) can't get it up even if they wanted to.
        p1esk 2y ago
        I thought the hormonal issues are caused by steroids, no?
        Iulioh 2y ago
        Nope. Normal natural bodybuilders get them if they have a low enough BF%. I mean, steroids are worse but you can get perfectly disfunctional naturally .
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - BossingAround 2y ago
      I don't know how people imagine viagra working - it's not like you take a pill, you continue browsing the internet, reading news, and suddenly, a boner lifts your desk.
      - robxorb 2y ago
        That's pretty much how I imagined it working. Was news to me to read in a sibling that it also requires mental stimulation. I thought it was purely a physical inducement by the drug, as many drugs for other purposes induce a physical response without requiring mental effort.
        lukan 2y ago
        Me too. Even xkcd helped spread missinformation about the topic .. https://xkcd.com/779/ https://xkcd.com/779/
      - coldtea 2y ago
        >it's not like you take a pill, you continue browsing the internet, reading news, and suddenly, a boner lifts your desk. Aside from the lifting the desk part, that's exactly how I imagine it working - and how it should work. You mean it also requires special sexual arousal? Well, even that it shouldn't be that difficult.
        fostware 2y ago
        I imagine some just need a stiff breeze
      - anjel 2y ago
        For unstimulated desk lifting erections, there is trimix https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimix_(drug) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimix_(drug)
    - bitwize 2y ago
      Sounds like an Elton John video. Most male bodybuilders wear loose shorts (or e.g., track pants) for workouts, the tight trunks being worn on the contest stage.
- Traubenfuchs 2y ago
  Long term PDE 5 treatment lowers estrogen and increases testosterone. As a consequence of that, and its cardiovasvular effects, it makes it easier for the body to turn fat into energy by fat-browning, to grow muscles and to lose fat.
- hammyhavoc 2y ago
  Tadalafil works well for getting more out of your workouts too (I take that). Gives you an overall feeling of well-being too (better than any cup of joe), I no-bullshit begin my day with it.
- salad-tycoon 2y ago
  Tadalfil or Cialis is more popular for this from what I can tell. Last 17-36 hours. “Good for gym pumps, my bros”
jbandela1 2y ago
That is true that it was originally for cardiovascular issues. However, it seems that there was at least theoretical consideration that it could be used to treat ED A nice overview is here: https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd2030 https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd2030
Phoenix5869 2y ago
Yep. Originally developed for high blood pressure and angina, but in clinical trials was found to be more effective in treating ED than heart issues.
ekianjo 2y ago
many drugs are found by accident
paiute 2y ago
It is being used off label all over the place for heart conditions. That’s why i take it. The on label use is actually pretty annoying for the first few months.
- newswasboring 2y ago
  Not trying to be crass here, but does that mean you are just walking around with boners all day?
  - SeanAnderson 2y ago
    Not OP, but their statement read as if that effect wears off after the body develops tolerance to the medication. So, yes they did for a while (it was annoying) but no they don't now (for a few months)
    - jawngee 2y ago
      Or they grew accustomed to the erections and no longer found them annoying, which is how I read it.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - itronitron 2y ago
        or other people found them annoying
      - xyproto 2y ago
        There must be a market for pants that have room for this.
        xkcd-sucks 2y ago
        I've heard the erection points downwards if you slice the ligament holding it up on the top side that could make it fit down the leg better
standardUser 2y ago
We don't know how many medications actually function. We put them inside of increasingly complex animals and study the results to see what they do (and hope they don't die). Botox was intended to treat muscle spasms. Powerful anti-depressants are regularly prescribed for pain from nerve damage in people with no mental health issues. And MDMA isn't prescribed for anything because the powers that be prematurely decided to ban it based on completely fabricated claims, which I assume is part of a massive hundred-year conspiracy to make sure people... keep dying from alcohol? Not totally sure about that last one, but it's hard to deny the facts.
- salad-tycoon 2y ago
  I work on health equity things in healthcare occasionally. I think this is so dumb. MDMA rejected by panel recently for evaluating rescheduling for use in PTSD. “ Panelists pointed to flawed studies that could have skewed the results, missing follow-up data on patient outcomes and a lack of diversity among participants. The vast majority of patients were white, with only five Black patients receiving MDMA, raising questions about the generalizability of the results. “The fact that this study has so many white participants is problematic because I don’t want something to roll out that only helps this one group,” said Elizabeth Joniak-Grant, the group’s patient representative. “ Hopefully the VA can lead the way. https://apnews.com/article/mdma-psychedelics-fda-ptsd-ecstasy-molly-1f3753324fa7f91821c9ee6246fa18e1 https://apnews.com/article/mdma-psychedelics-fda-ptsd-ecstas...
lebuffon 2y ago
I know a former executive of the company that was developing this drug for cardiovascular problems. He told me that they sold it because it had this "side-effect" that they couldn't get rid of. ;-) Marketing is the key to business success. (Talking to you, tech people)
- grogenaut 2y ago
  Is that marketing (advertising) or product market fit?
  - lebuffon 2y ago
    Marketing as I was taught in a fortune 500 is the end to end process of delivering a product/service to the target customer. Good product is the table stakes. (entry requirement) Everything else is in the marketing plan.
1oooqooq 2y ago
this is the case with almost all drugs. for example almost every antidepressants was the result of a weight loss or something like that. drug research is worse than training an LLM. you feed it to random people and then compare effects with initial conditions and of something looks good you try with more control.
caycep 2y ago
yes, well, pulmonary hypertension

mikercampbell 2y ago

I vaguely recall an anecdote about athletes using it for performance improvement, and getting a slightly different stat buff

brandall10 2y ago
It's commonly used in bodybuilding competitions.
- lukan 2y ago
  Now I cannot get that picture out of my head. A crowd full of bodybuilders in tight shorts and all on Viagra doing workouts. Each to his own I guess..
  - idiotsecant 2y ago
    I'm pretty sure you don't just get random erections unless you're engaged in activity that you find sexually stimulating. ...so yes, probably.
    - rs_rs_rs_rs_rs 2y ago
      > I'm pretty sure you don't just get random erections unless you're engaged in activity that you find sexually stimulating I think that's the case for Cialis but Viagra should make you "pop" regardless of what activity you're doing.
      - Frost1x 2y ago
        That’s not how it works at all. As someone with recent onset of ED taking viagra regularly, it’s been fantastic but it just makes me function like I should. It takes about an hour to take effect (usually less for me) and lasts a little over 4 hours with some lingering effects for several hours later, with diminishing effects towards the 4 and above hours. If I’m sexually stimulated during that time physically and or mentally, everything works like it should (erection). If during that time even when I would normally see peak effects around the 50 min to 90 min mark I’m driving or doing taxes or whatever non-sexually stimulating activity one might do, no erection at all.
        throwup238 2y ago
        You don’t get turned on by Schedule K-1 Form 1065? Nothing gets me hornier than correctly accounting for capital equipment depreciation.
      - kwhitefoot 2y ago
        > Viagra should make you "pop" regardless of what activity you're doing. No it doesn't. It simply makes the effect of sexual stimulation more effective. If you body is not trying to engorge the penis it has little to no effect on that part of you. At least that is my experience of taking it.
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
      Isn't random erections a requirement for healthy genitalia in males?
      - pcthrowaway 2y ago
        Not exactly 'random'. I mean, typically it would be during periods of relaxation and certain stages of sleep. Adult males in their 30s or older very rarely just get a random erection with no physical or mental stimulation while going about their business.
  - rs_rs_rs_rs_rs 2y ago
    Bodybuilders at competition time have very low body fat and are very dehidrated, it's never an "issue".
    - Iulioh 2y ago
      And really big hormonal issues caused by the low body fat. Bodybuilders (in the months before competing, while cutting) can't get it up even if they wanted to.
      - p1esk 2y ago
        I thought the hormonal issues are caused by steroids, no?
        Iulioh 2y ago
        Nope. Normal natural bodybuilders get them if they have a low enough BF%. I mean, steroids are worse but you can get perfectly disfunctional naturally .
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  - BossingAround 2y ago
    I don't know how people imagine viagra working - it's not like you take a pill, you continue browsing the internet, reading news, and suddenly, a boner lifts your desk.
    - robxorb 2y ago
      That's pretty much how I imagined it working. Was news to me to read in a sibling that it also requires mental stimulation. I thought it was purely a physical inducement by the drug, as many drugs for other purposes induce a physical response without requiring mental effort.
      - lukan 2y ago
        Me too. Even xkcd helped spread missinformation about the topic .. https://xkcd.com/779/ https://xkcd.com/779/
    - coldtea 2y ago
      >it's not like you take a pill, you continue browsing the internet, reading news, and suddenly, a boner lifts your desk. Aside from the lifting the desk part, that's exactly how I imagine it working - and how it should work. You mean it also requires special sexual arousal? Well, even that it shouldn't be that difficult.
      - fostware 2y ago
        I imagine some just need a stiff breeze
    - anjel 2y ago
      For unstimulated desk lifting erections, there is trimix https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimix_(drug) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimix_(drug)
  - bitwize 2y ago
    Sounds like an Elton John video. Most male bodybuilders wear loose shorts (or e.g., track pants) for workouts, the tight trunks being worn on the contest stage.
Traubenfuchs 2y ago
Long term PDE 5 treatment lowers estrogen and increases testosterone. As a consequence of that, and its cardiovasvular effects, it makes it easier for the body to turn fat into energy by fat-browning, to grow muscles and to lose fat.
hammyhavoc 2y ago
Tadalafil works well for getting more out of your workouts too (I take that). Gives you an overall feeling of well-being too (better than any cup of joe), I no-bullshit begin my day with it.
salad-tycoon 2y ago
Tadalfil or Cialis is more popular for this from what I can tell. Last 17-36 hours. “Good for gym pumps, my bros”

jbandela1 2y ago

That is true that it was originally for cardiovascular issues. However, it seems that there was at least theoretical consideration that it could be used to treat ED A nice overview is here: https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd2030 https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd2030

Phoenix5869 2y ago

Yep. Originally developed for high blood pressure and angina, but in clinical trials was found to be more effective in treating ED than heart issues.

ekianjo 2y ago

many drugs are found by accident

paiute 2y ago

It is being used off label all over the place for heart conditions. That’s why i take it. The on label use is actually pretty annoying for the first few months.

newswasboring 2y ago
Not trying to be crass here, but does that mean you are just walking around with boners all day?
- SeanAnderson 2y ago
  Not OP, but their statement read as if that effect wears off after the body develops tolerance to the medication. So, yes they did for a while (it was annoying) but no they don't now (for a few months)
  - jawngee 2y ago
    Or they grew accustomed to the erections and no longer found them annoying, which is how I read it.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - itronitron 2y ago
      or other people found them annoying
    - xyproto 2y ago
      There must be a market for pants that have room for this.
      - xkcd-sucks 2y ago
        I've heard the erection points downwards if you slice the ligament holding it up on the top side that could make it fit down the leg better

standardUser 2y ago

We don't know how many medications actually function. We put them inside of increasingly complex animals and study the results to see what they do (and hope they don't die). Botox was intended to treat muscle spasms. Powerful anti-depressants are regularly prescribed for pain from nerve damage in people with no mental health issues. And MDMA isn't prescribed for anything because the powers that be prematurely decided to ban it based on completely fabricated claims, which I assume is part of a massive hundred-year conspiracy to make sure people... keep dying from alcohol? Not totally sure about that last one, but it's hard to deny the facts.

salad-tycoon 2y ago
I work on health equity things in healthcare occasionally. I think this is so dumb. MDMA rejected by panel recently for evaluating rescheduling for use in PTSD. “ Panelists pointed to flawed studies that could have skewed the results, missing follow-up data on patient outcomes and a lack of diversity among participants. The vast majority of patients were white, with only five Black patients receiving MDMA, raising questions about the generalizability of the results. “The fact that this study has so many white participants is problematic because I don’t want something to roll out that only helps this one group,” said Elizabeth Joniak-Grant, the group’s patient representative. “ Hopefully the VA can lead the way. https://apnews.com/article/mdma-psychedelics-fda-ptsd-ecstasy-molly-1f3753324fa7f91821c9ee6246fa18e1 https://apnews.com/article/mdma-psychedelics-fda-ptsd-ecstas...

lebuffon 2y ago

I know a former executive of the company that was developing this drug for cardiovascular problems. He told me that they sold it because it had this "side-effect" that they couldn't get rid of. ;-) Marketing is the key to business success. (Talking to you, tech people)

grogenaut 2y ago
Is that marketing (advertising) or product market fit?
- lebuffon 2y ago
  Marketing as I was taught in a fortune 500 is the end to end process of delivering a product/service to the target customer. Good product is the table stakes. (entry requirement) Everything else is in the marketing plan.

1oooqooq 2y ago

this is the case with almost all drugs. for example almost every antidepressants was the result of a weight loss or something like that. drug research is worse than training an LLM. you feed it to random people and then compare effects with initial conditions and of something looks good you try with more control.

caycep 2y ago

yes, well, pulmonary hypertension