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This is better understood for Americans in terms like "Grouping of State governors submits plan". The European Commission doesn't pass laws. It represents the

This is better understood for Americans in terms like "Grouping of State governors submits plan". The European Commission doesn't pass laws. It represents the heads of state of the EU nations, and it can propose legislation, but not pass it. Only the Parliament can pass legislation, and the parliament is made up of (720, as of this year) MEPs from various national parties in EU states representing somewhat-large constituencies in their home states, in weird and wobbly international groupings. So it's a much tougher sell. ETA: Governors isn't an ideal comparison -- commissioners are appointed representatives of the heads of state/heads of government, a bit like ambassadors, and they are supposed to think collectively like ministers of a European government. But it's sort of closer to the idea. Essentially in my analogy, it's a bit like if all the state governments gathered some delegates who asked the Senate or House to write legislation, and provided them with an outline. But my point is, the Commission planning something doesn't at all mean it's going to happen.

surfingdino 2y ago
And sometimes member states do it anyway https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/29/polish-surveillance-law-violates-human-rights-rules-european-court/ https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/29/polish-surveillance-l...
- throw46365 2y ago
  Right -- states are very often ahead of the EU on all sorts of legislation, though. It was always amusing to see Brits complain that the EU imposed GDPR on us, when it was pretty much our own existing legislation (the Data Protection Act of 1998) that gave the GDPR most of the structure it has.
Hizonner 2y ago
Governors in the US aren't formally the main source of federal legislative proposals, nor do they represent their states at the federal level in any formal way. They can propose legislation in the same sense that any citizen can, but a petition signed by all 50 of them would have zero legal force in terms of requiring Congress to take anything up. The Commission is a lot more integrated into the process. Governors of US states are also directly elected, and have to be careful about annoying the voters too much... and it would be noticed if each of them individually signed onto something like you suggest. It'd be even more noticed if they did it over and over every year. Commissioners are at one or two levels of appointed remove, and are also somewhat sheltered by the Commision as a collective. They can more easily get away with repeatedly raising unpopular proposals until they manage to wear everybody down and move the Overton window.
- throw46365 2y ago
  > but a petition signed by all 50 of them would have zero legal force in terms of requiring Congress to take anything up. Well it's not an exact analogy as I say; I edited a bit for clarity earlier too. But as it goes, I'm not sure the Commission can compel the Parliament to take up legislation anyway. The fact that they usually get their way is more due to realpolitik; I'm pretty sure a formalised gathering of delegates of US states would ultimately be able to wear down enough senators and representatives to get legislation drafted. The EU system is a bit more realpolitik than the US system, at this point; the USA has abandoned realpolitik except for the times when the House majority wants to undermine their own speaker.
- matthewdgreen 2y ago
  The EU Parliament also can’t propose legislation, only the EU Commission can. This reduces the elected MEP’s role to basically gatekeeping, allowing or denying legislative proposals formulated by th Commission, who have shown themselves to be utterly relentless in their pursuit of this particular issue. That dramatically changes the balance of power when you compare it with the US Congress. You have to imagine the Commission uses this power to set the legislative priorities (and hence the re-election chances for MEPs). Imagine if the only way to pass some legislation of vital importance to you constituents was to bargain with the Commission so they would propose it? Presumably they’d get a lot of their legislative priorities passed even if no voter really wanted them.
  - throw46365 2y ago
    > this reduces the elected MEP’s role to basically gatekeeping, allowing or denying legislative proposals formulated by th Commission, MEPs are pretty much just like MPs in the British parliament. They are not just rubber-stamp voters of policies from the Commission. They can propose amendments. (Misrepresentation of this fact is a lot of why Brexit happened, if you ask me.) The challenge is that the EU Council (essentially usually acting as an intermediate drafting body between the Commission and the Parliament, I think?) has to agree those changes too. AFAIK just as the Parliament has to agree amendments made by the Council. If they don't agree, the law doesn't go forward, as far as I understand it. ETA: this is pretty useful: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/infographic/legislative-procedure/index_en.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/infographic/legislative-proce... I'm not sure it captures the path much legislation seems to me to take in practice (where a lot of the drafting energy is actually spent in the Council), but you can see parallels to the UK and US processes throughout it.
EPWN3D 2y ago
Didn't the EC pass the DMA?
- throw46365 2y ago
  Unless I am mistaken in my reading of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Markets_Act#Legislative_procedure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Markets_Act#Legislativ... suggests it went through the parliament in a now pretty normal way. They used a tripartite approach earlier in the negotiations, and people say this is a bit less amenable to scrutiny, but ultimately the parliamentary adoption happened.

surfingdino 2y ago

And sometimes member states do it anyway https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/29/polish-surveillance-law-violates-human-rights-rules-european-court/ https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/29/polish-surveillance-l...

throw46365 2y ago
Right -- states are very often ahead of the EU on all sorts of legislation, though. It was always amusing to see Brits complain that the EU imposed GDPR on us, when it was pretty much our own existing legislation (the Data Protection Act of 1998) that gave the GDPR most of the structure it has.

Hizonner 2y ago

Governors in the US aren't formally the main source of federal legislative proposals, nor do they represent their states at the federal level in any formal way. They can propose legislation in the same sense that any citizen can, but a petition signed by all 50 of them would have zero legal force in terms of requiring Congress to take anything up. The Commission is a lot more integrated into the process. Governors of US states are also directly elected, and have to be careful about annoying the voters too much... and it would be noticed if each of them individually signed onto something like you suggest. It'd be even more noticed if they did it over and over every year. Commissioners are at one or two levels of appointed remove, and are also somewhat sheltered by the Commision as a collective. They can more easily get away with repeatedly raising unpopular proposals until they manage to wear everybody down and move the Overton window.

throw46365 2y ago
> but a petition signed by all 50 of them would have zero legal force in terms of requiring Congress to take anything up. Well it's not an exact analogy as I say; I edited a bit for clarity earlier too. But as it goes, I'm not sure the Commission can compel the Parliament to take up legislation anyway. The fact that they usually get their way is more due to realpolitik; I'm pretty sure a formalised gathering of delegates of US states would ultimately be able to wear down enough senators and representatives to get legislation drafted. The EU system is a bit more realpolitik than the US system, at this point; the USA has abandoned realpolitik except for the times when the House majority wants to undermine their own speaker.
matthewdgreen 2y ago
The EU Parliament also can’t propose legislation, only the EU Commission can. This reduces the elected MEP’s role to basically gatekeeping, allowing or denying legislative proposals formulated by th Commission, who have shown themselves to be utterly relentless in their pursuit of this particular issue. That dramatically changes the balance of power when you compare it with the US Congress. You have to imagine the Commission uses this power to set the legislative priorities (and hence the re-election chances for MEPs). Imagine if the only way to pass some legislation of vital importance to you constituents was to bargain with the Commission so they would propose it? Presumably they’d get a lot of their legislative priorities passed even if no voter really wanted them.
- throw46365 2y ago
  > this reduces the elected MEP’s role to basically gatekeeping, allowing or denying legislative proposals formulated by th Commission, MEPs are pretty much just like MPs in the British parliament. They are not just rubber-stamp voters of policies from the Commission. They can propose amendments. (Misrepresentation of this fact is a lot of why Brexit happened, if you ask me.) The challenge is that the EU Council (essentially usually acting as an intermediate drafting body between the Commission and the Parliament, I think?) has to agree those changes too. AFAIK just as the Parliament has to agree amendments made by the Council. If they don't agree, the law doesn't go forward, as far as I understand it. ETA: this is pretty useful: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/infographic/legislative-procedure/index_en.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/infographic/legislative-proce... I'm not sure it captures the path much legislation seems to me to take in practice (where a lot of the drafting energy is actually spent in the Council), but you can see parallels to the UK and US processes throughout it.

EPWN3D 2y ago

Didn't the EC pass the DMA?

throw46365 2y ago
Unless I am mistaken in my reading of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Markets_Act#Legislative_procedure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Markets_Act#Legislativ... suggests it went through the parliament in a now pretty normal way. They used a tripartite approach earlier in the negotiations, and people say this is a bit less amenable to scrutiny, but ultimately the parliamentary adoption happened.