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And the CEO was right, you can’t copy cat the idea of the place you worked at no matter how simple it is. It’s common sense - he did behave in an unethical way

And the CEO was right, you can’t copy cat the idea of the place you worked at no matter how simple it is. It’s common sense - he did behave in an unethical way.

chii 2y ago
i dont think that's unethical - provided that no copyright is violated. Ideas are not copyrightable, and surely they do not have a patent on sites like replit.
- coolThingsFirst 2y ago
  Let's put it this way some CEO spent years finding a product market fit and they hire you - they pay you and let you have access to their internal conversations and ideas and you suddenly brainstorm a project with uncanny resemblance to what the company is making - that in my view is stealing IP and is very unethical and shady behavior.
  - michaelmrose 2y ago
    What IP did they steal. Please be specific.
  - ArdentAardvark 2y ago
    It just isn't. You're allowed to make products that compete with products already on the market, even if you've worked for the company making that product. Unless there's specific IP that was stolen, I don't see how this is in any way unethical or shady. They hired you to develop that product, and you did. Nowhere in that contract is anything saying you can never use what you learned elsewhere. They'd need to pay you significantly more than what they paid you (which they won't). And there are great reasons why non-competes are basically invalid in most places.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      > Unless there's specific IP that was stolen, To wit, stealing trade secrets is recognized as an actual crime, and got someone 8 years of jail for trying to sell the formula for Coca-cola to Pepsi.
  - strunz 2y ago
    Strange logic. Would you consider it unethical for former Google employees to start their own search engine? Or to quit and go work for Bing? Assuming they aren't stealing code this happens in every industry. Can former Ford employees not work for Chevy? I don't see the difference.
- rvnx 2y ago
  It can be unethical without being illegal. When I work for a company, I don't spin-off that company using corporate knowledge, I just find something else to do (and that's probably why I'm not rich :D), but it's the most elegant thing to do. Zuckerberg is a famous example of such behaviour. I think this Radon is talented too (good tech + doesn't wait for others to give permission + very interesting ideas), and what he did is probably okay-ish, a bit borderline but still on the ok-side (he seems more like a fan of Repl.it than anything). I just wouldn't go til the point where I complain about it publicly.
  - consp 2y ago
    > don't spin-off that company using corporate knowledge That is a very common way to do a spin off. Usually it involves some patents or non public knowledge and you make an agreement with the original company for it. But when it is all open there is nothing, legal or moral (in my opinion), from stopping you from making your own spinoff. Companies don't care about you, you shouldn't care about them.
  - kwhitefoot 2y ago
    > don't spin-off that company using corporate knowledge, If everyone followed this rule there would be no Fairchild and no Intel.
    - ArdentAardvark 2y ago
      There'd be nothing. A lot of competitors have come about from people starting companies to compete in the same field. All of the modern gaming industry is basically based on disenfranchised game developers starting their own companies.
  - ArdentAardvark 2y ago
    I don't understand at all why this would be unethical. Maybe I'm working for a company making a product I have expertise for and I'm passionate about, but they're making decisions that I feel make it worse for users unnecessarily. I leave and start my own competing product to do it my own way that I consider to be the better way. This isn't unethical. This is the nature of all competition everywhere going back as far as anybody can remember. I've stolen nothing at all, so I'm not sure on what basis it would be unethical. And if it's a topic or industry I have expertise and knowledge of, why would I throw that all away just because I worked for a company where I used that expertise and knowledge? That's basically implying that we're all "ethically" subject to non-competes for the rest of our lives after working for a company making a particular kind of product. That's clearly and absolutely "inelegant", to use your phrasing.
bryanrasmussen 2y ago
wait - so I worked for Thomson Reuters Legal solutions once, so I can't make a better legal search solution? I mean I couldn't for the first year after working there because I had signed a contract saying I wouldn't which is what most people do, is that what you mean? That if you sign a non-compete agreement you can't? Because ok, but I would think if you don't sign the non-compete agreement it means you can because otherwise why would people have non-compete agreements?
- rvnx 2y ago
  If you worked for a small company (let's say < 100 people) it's not a good idea, as you will actively focus all your energy destroying the jobs of your former colleagues and take their marketshare (in some way, even indirectly), and these ideas with small teams usually require deep secret knowledge. If it's a huge company (e.g. you work for a large telecom company and launch a new telecom company), then it's fine because you started only from one brick, and had to figure out most of the pieces by yourself.
  - ArdentAardvark 2y ago
    This is ridiculous. There are no rules, not even ethical ones, preventing you from starting a competing company. Especially since generally we don't start companies "putting our effort into destroying the jobs of our former co-workers". That's an absurd take.
    - rvnx 2y ago
      It's like if you work in private army A and go to create private army B to fight against army A on the same territories. No reasons to be surprised if private army A colleagues don't like your move.
      - mtndew4brkfst 2y ago
        Why should anyone care about the emotional state of members of a "private army"? Why would this be one of your analogies in the first place?
iLoveOncall 2y ago
It's not just unethical, it's most likely in breach of the employment contract he signed for his internship and he would have definitely lost in court. That guy didn't get bullied by the CEO, the CEO got bullied by HackerNews.
- coolThingsFirst 2y ago
  im reading this gengis khan book and it makes me wonder what he'd have done in this situation.
- michaelmrose 2y ago
  You mentioned an employment contract which is very open and shut. It's a very simplifying argument which unfortunately isn't mentioned by anyone else involved and such a clause wouldn't even be legal in California where Replit is based. A logical conclusion is that the breach doesn't exist and arguments that rest on it are unfounded
beardyw 2y ago
I think your emotive language is confusing. Perhaps you meant to say "you shouldn't copy". Obviously he "can" do whatever he did!
- coolThingsFirst 2y ago
  Interesting, I've seen it used like this in the past: "you can't just walk to Mordor" - I guess the "cant" is to refer to the grave consequences. (orcs with blades are dangerous)
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
michaelmrose 2y ago
Do if you ever work at an Italian restaurant you aren't allowed to ever own one thereafter?
Propelloni 2y ago
It is not the idea that matters but the execution. Execute well and you will succeed with a mediocre idea, execute badly and the best idea in the world is not going to help you.
bitnasty 2y ago
That’s like saying I can’t write my own hobby OS because I used to work for Microsoft.

And the CEO was right, you can’t copy cat the idea of the place you worked at no matter how simple it is. It’s common sense - he did behave in an unethical way.

chii 2y ago

i dont think that's unethical - provided that no copyright is violated. Ideas are not copyrightable, and surely they do not have a patent on sites like replit.

coolThingsFirst 2y ago
Let's put it this way some CEO spent years finding a product market fit and they hire you - they pay you and let you have access to their internal conversations and ideas and you suddenly brainstorm a project with uncanny resemblance to what the company is making - that in my view is stealing IP and is very unethical and shady behavior.
- michaelmrose 2y ago
  What IP did they steal. Please be specific.
- ArdentAardvark 2y ago
  It just isn't. You're allowed to make products that compete with products already on the market, even if you've worked for the company making that product. Unless there's specific IP that was stolen, I don't see how this is in any way unethical or shady. They hired you to develop that product, and you did. Nowhere in that contract is anything saying you can never use what you learned elsewhere. They'd need to pay you significantly more than what they paid you (which they won't). And there are great reasons why non-competes are basically invalid in most places.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    > Unless there's specific IP that was stolen, To wit, stealing trade secrets is recognized as an actual crime, and got someone 8 years of jail for trying to sell the formula for Coca-cola to Pepsi.
- strunz 2y ago
  Strange logic. Would you consider it unethical for former Google employees to start their own search engine? Or to quit and go work for Bing? Assuming they aren't stealing code this happens in every industry. Can former Ford employees not work for Chevy? I don't see the difference.
rvnx 2y ago
It can be unethical without being illegal. When I work for a company, I don't spin-off that company using corporate knowledge, I just find something else to do (and that's probably why I'm not rich :D), but it's the most elegant thing to do. Zuckerberg is a famous example of such behaviour. I think this Radon is talented too (good tech + doesn't wait for others to give permission + very interesting ideas), and what he did is probably okay-ish, a bit borderline but still on the ok-side (he seems more like a fan of Repl.it than anything). I just wouldn't go til the point where I complain about it publicly.
- consp 2y ago
  > don't spin-off that company using corporate knowledge That is a very common way to do a spin off. Usually it involves some patents or non public knowledge and you make an agreement with the original company for it. But when it is all open there is nothing, legal or moral (in my opinion), from stopping you from making your own spinoff. Companies don't care about you, you shouldn't care about them.
- kwhitefoot 2y ago
  > don't spin-off that company using corporate knowledge, If everyone followed this rule there would be no Fairchild and no Intel.
  - ArdentAardvark 2y ago
    There'd be nothing. A lot of competitors have come about from people starting companies to compete in the same field. All of the modern gaming industry is basically based on disenfranchised game developers starting their own companies.
- ArdentAardvark 2y ago
  I don't understand at all why this would be unethical. Maybe I'm working for a company making a product I have expertise for and I'm passionate about, but they're making decisions that I feel make it worse for users unnecessarily. I leave and start my own competing product to do it my own way that I consider to be the better way. This isn't unethical. This is the nature of all competition everywhere going back as far as anybody can remember. I've stolen nothing at all, so I'm not sure on what basis it would be unethical. And if it's a topic or industry I have expertise and knowledge of, why would I throw that all away just because I worked for a company where I used that expertise and knowledge? That's basically implying that we're all "ethically" subject to non-competes for the rest of our lives after working for a company making a particular kind of product. That's clearly and absolutely "inelegant", to use your phrasing.

bryanrasmussen 2y ago

wait - so I worked for Thomson Reuters Legal solutions once, so I can't make a better legal search solution? I mean I couldn't for the first year after working there because I had signed a contract saying I wouldn't which is what most people do, is that what you mean? That if you sign a non-compete agreement you can't? Because ok, but I would think if you don't sign the non-compete agreement it means you can because otherwise why would people have non-compete agreements?

rvnx 2y ago
If you worked for a small company (let's say < 100 people) it's not a good idea, as you will actively focus all your energy destroying the jobs of your former colleagues and take their marketshare (in some way, even indirectly), and these ideas with small teams usually require deep secret knowledge. If it's a huge company (e.g. you work for a large telecom company and launch a new telecom company), then it's fine because you started only from one brick, and had to figure out most of the pieces by yourself.
- ArdentAardvark 2y ago
  This is ridiculous. There are no rules, not even ethical ones, preventing you from starting a competing company. Especially since generally we don't start companies "putting our effort into destroying the jobs of our former co-workers". That's an absurd take.
  - rvnx 2y ago
    It's like if you work in private army A and go to create private army B to fight against army A on the same territories. No reasons to be surprised if private army A colleagues don't like your move.
    - mtndew4brkfst 2y ago
      Why should anyone care about the emotional state of members of a "private army"? Why would this be one of your analogies in the first place?

iLoveOncall 2y ago

It's not just unethical, it's most likely in breach of the employment contract he signed for his internship and he would have definitely lost in court. That guy didn't get bullied by the CEO, the CEO got bullied by HackerNews.

coolThingsFirst 2y ago
im reading this gengis khan book and it makes me wonder what he'd have done in this situation.
michaelmrose 2y ago
You mentioned an employment contract which is very open and shut. It's a very simplifying argument which unfortunately isn't mentioned by anyone else involved and such a clause wouldn't even be legal in California where Replit is based. A logical conclusion is that the breach doesn't exist and arguments that rest on it are unfounded

beardyw 2y ago

I think your emotive language is confusing. Perhaps you meant to say "you shouldn't copy". Obviously he "can" do whatever he did!

coolThingsFirst 2y ago
Interesting, I've seen it used like this in the past: "you can't just walk to Mordor" - I guess the "cant" is to refer to the grave consequences. (orcs with blades are dangerous)

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

michaelmrose 2y ago

Do if you ever work at an Italian restaurant you aren't allowed to ever own one thereafter?

Propelloni 2y ago

It is not the idea that matters but the execution. Execute well and you will succeed with a mediocre idea, execute badly and the best idea in the world is not going to help you.

bitnasty 2y ago

That’s like saying I can’t write my own hobby OS because I used to work for Microsoft.