7 ms·

All respect, this guy is was ~91. I’m uncomfortable driving with my mom. As a total layperson, what sort of tests does a person have to pass annually(?) to main

All respect, this guy is was ~91. I’m uncomfortable driving with my mom. As a total layperson, what sort of tests does a person have to pass annually(?) to maintain a pilot’s license? Or is this dude just so O.G. that he was bound to go out living his dream?

p51-remorse 2y ago
At a minimum, flight reviews every two years. More applicable to a 90yo is keeping a medical.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  For private flying, the medical is a lot less stringent (as I understand it.... I'm not a pilot).
  - p51-remorse 2y ago
    Eh… a third class medical still is highly sensitive to your medical history. See /r/flying for various tribulations even young people have gone through for relatively benign things.
  - pkilgore 2y ago
    You're probably still healthier than most of the country if you have a Third Class. According to the FAA airman registry he was flying on BasicMed (less strict than third class, but comes with loss of certain privileges). WILLIAM ALISON ANDERS Airman opted-out of releasing address Medical Information: Medical Class: Third Medical Date: 10/2013 MUST HAVE AVAILABLE GLASSES FOR NEAR VISION. NOT VALID FOR ANY CLASS AFTER 10/31/2014. BasicMed Course Date: 3/22/2023 BasicMed CMEC Date: 3/22/2023 Certificates
  - losteric 2y ago
    and one can absolutely get examined by a “pilot’s doctors”
colechristensen 2y ago
Here's a brief guide https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/standards https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/standards "Old guy crashes airplane" is a somewhat common occurrence that leads to obvious question if they really should have passed their medical. There's a tendency to not want to be the one to say no, especially if you've known the doctor signing the forms for decades... or if you were a fricken astronaut.
- darby_nine 2y ago
  At least with an airplane you're not much risk to others....
  - andrewinardeer 2y ago
    Sarcasm doesn't translate well via text.
    - colechristensen 2y ago
      A very large proportion of private aviation accidents involve only the people in the aircraft.
    - darby_nine 2y ago
      This wasn't sarcastic at all—any driver of a car is far more dangerous than one in a plane. 9/11 is essentially meaningless in the shadow of auto deaths (to provide a direct comparison). I can't get a firm number on number of plane fatalities in the US (or auto fatalities worldwide), but 9/11 alone would amount to about only 0.04% of total vehicle fatalities in the US since 2000.
      - fargle 2y ago
        if i live to be 90, i'd wish to die quietly in my sleep like my grandpa. not screaming in terror like his passengers.
        2y ago
imoverclocked 2y ago
Pilots in the US need to pass a biennial flight review with a few hours of ground… or add a rating instead. It’s possible he was operating under BasicMed so he may not have needed a recent medical.
- p51-remorse 2y ago
  (But would have needed to self-certify health and maintain a valid driver’s license)
  - imoverclocked 2y ago
    As in, “yup, I’m feeling good enough to fly today” and then pass our nations highly rigorous driving tests :) I wouldn’t be surprised if he was in very good mental+physical condition though. The crash might have nothing to do with age.
- tjohns 2y ago
  A BFR is not just ground... you have to demonstrate airborne skills as well And even with BasicMed, your primary doctor has to certify that you are fit to fly. It's less rigorous than a full FAA flight medical by design, but it's not a rubber stamp. (You're also limited to smaller aircraft that are unlikely to do much damage on the ground.)
- ultrarunner 2y ago
  He absolutely was on BasicMed; his last medical was 11 years ago. His last BasicMed course was about a year ago.
nvy 2y ago
It's an open secret in the aviation community that large numbers of aging boomers are medically unfit to fly but are able to maintain their medicals, for a variety of reasons.
- glenstein 2y ago
  Is there any more you can say about (1) how you know this and/or (2) whether there are reports or books that talk about this at all?
  - parsimo2010 2y ago
    This is the main way: https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certificati... Lots of old pilots in the general aviation community are on BasicMed.
    - sokoloff 2y ago
      FAA studied the results of BasicMed and found no statistically significant differences in crash rate between BasicMed and FAA/AME issued physicals. https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oamtechreports/202118.pdf https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/data_research/resear...
  - nvy 2y ago
    I doubt there are reports. Such is the nature of open secrets. Once they're reported in an official fashion they cease to be "secret" and regulators' hands are forced.
    - glenstein 2y ago
      So you have no personal connection and no knowledge of any particular reports. That doesn't make you wrong, but surely you can understand how reading this and not knowing what you know, this raises every possible red flag for unsubstantiated internet speculation.
parsimo2010 2y ago
I’ve seen a few people mentioning medical certifications, but nobody has mentioned that 8 years ago the FAA passed a system called BasicMed which allows pilots to continue flying without getting a medical examination as long as they meet certain conditions. The plane must not exceed 6,000 lbs and must carry less than six passengers. You also can’t have failed your last medical exam. The plane he crashed had a maximum takeoff weight of 5,500 lbs and only carried two people. As long as he flew below 18,000 ft and 250 knots, he was legal (I’m not saying anything about whether he was healthy enough to fly). In all likelihood he hadn’t had a physical in 8 years. He still would have had to have passed one in his eighties, but he probably hadn’t had an FAA exam in a while. Source: I’m a private pilot and my dad in his 60s is as well, he flies on BasicMed because he hates going to the doc. Edit: someone actually had mentioned BasicMed a few minutes before I started typing, but I’ll leave my comment up.
- tjohns 2y ago
  You still need to get a physical (and sign off) from your primary doc every few years under BasicMed. Just not a full FAA flight physical. If someone has not had a documented physical at all in 8 years, they're not legal to fly. This is also a matter of public record, you can look up exactly what medical class he's operating under and when his last physical exam was on the FAA website. There no need to speculate. Edit: I just looked it up. He had his last BasicMed physical from his primary doc last year, so he was current.
  - ominous_prime 2y ago
    The FAA only knows when you last took the BasicMed quiz and attested that you will follow the rules. Getting a physical, storing the form signed by the doctor, and maintaining a valid drivers license are up to the individual.
    - tjohns 2y ago
      When you take the BasicMed class, you also have to report when your last physical was. Your physical date is public record is transmitted to the FAA and is part of your Airman Registry record. Yes, you could lie... but the documentation for the physical is part of your logbook and subject to audit. If I were a CFI, I would be checking that before signing off anyone's BFR. You can't really get away with this for long.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
leetcrew 2y ago
overall, the bar for skills and medical is significantly higher for flying vs driving. the other comments do a good job addressing the specifics. it's worth keeping in mind that the sky is a big place. so is the ground when you're not driving a car. it's not a great idea to keep flying in your 90s, but it's extremely unlikely that anyone gets hurt who didn't choose to be in the plane.
- thfuran 2y ago
  Though you still leave a big fucking mess for someone to deal with.

p51-remorse 2y ago

At a minimum, flight reviews every two years. More applicable to a 90yo is keeping a medical.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
SoftTalker 2y ago
For private flying, the medical is a lot less stringent (as I understand it.... I'm not a pilot).
- p51-remorse 2y ago
  Eh… a third class medical still is highly sensitive to your medical history. See /r/flying for various tribulations even young people have gone through for relatively benign things.
- pkilgore 2y ago
  You're probably still healthier than most of the country if you have a Third Class. According to the FAA airman registry he was flying on BasicMed (less strict than third class, but comes with loss of certain privileges). WILLIAM ALISON ANDERS Airman opted-out of releasing address Medical Information: Medical Class: Third Medical Date: 10/2013 MUST HAVE AVAILABLE GLASSES FOR NEAR VISION. NOT VALID FOR ANY CLASS AFTER 10/31/2014. BasicMed Course Date: 3/22/2023 BasicMed CMEC Date: 3/22/2023 Certificates
- losteric 2y ago
  and one can absolutely get examined by a “pilot’s doctors”

colechristensen 2y ago

Here's a brief guide https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/standards https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/standards "Old guy crashes airplane" is a somewhat common occurrence that leads to obvious question if they really should have passed their medical. There's a tendency to not want to be the one to say no, especially if you've known the doctor signing the forms for decades... or if you were a fricken astronaut.

darby_nine 2y ago
At least with an airplane you're not much risk to others....
- andrewinardeer 2y ago
  Sarcasm doesn't translate well via text.
  - colechristensen 2y ago
    A very large proportion of private aviation accidents involve only the people in the aircraft.
  - darby_nine 2y ago
    This wasn't sarcastic at all—any driver of a car is far more dangerous than one in a plane. 9/11 is essentially meaningless in the shadow of auto deaths (to provide a direct comparison). I can't get a firm number on number of plane fatalities in the US (or auto fatalities worldwide), but 9/11 alone would amount to about only 0.04% of total vehicle fatalities in the US since 2000.
    - fargle 2y ago
      if i live to be 90, i'd wish to die quietly in my sleep like my grandpa. not screaming in terror like his passengers.
      - 2y ago

imoverclocked 2y ago

Pilots in the US need to pass a biennial flight review with a few hours of ground… or add a rating instead. It’s possible he was operating under BasicMed so he may not have needed a recent medical.

p51-remorse 2y ago
(But would have needed to self-certify health and maintain a valid driver’s license)
- imoverclocked 2y ago
  As in, “yup, I’m feeling good enough to fly today” and then pass our nations highly rigorous driving tests :) I wouldn’t be surprised if he was in very good mental+physical condition though. The crash might have nothing to do with age.
tjohns 2y ago
A BFR is not just ground... you have to demonstrate airborne skills as well And even with BasicMed, your primary doctor has to certify that you are fit to fly. It's less rigorous than a full FAA flight medical by design, but it's not a rubber stamp. (You're also limited to smaller aircraft that are unlikely to do much damage on the ground.)
ultrarunner 2y ago
He absolutely was on BasicMed; his last medical was 11 years ago. His last BasicMed course was about a year ago.

nvy 2y ago

It's an open secret in the aviation community that large numbers of aging boomers are medically unfit to fly but are able to maintain their medicals, for a variety of reasons.

glenstein 2y ago
Is there any more you can say about (1) how you know this and/or (2) whether there are reports or books that talk about this at all?
- parsimo2010 2y ago
  This is the main way: https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certificati... Lots of old pilots in the general aviation community are on BasicMed.
  - sokoloff 2y ago
    FAA studied the results of BasicMed and found no statistically significant differences in crash rate between BasicMed and FAA/AME issued physicals. https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oamtechreports/202118.pdf https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/data_research/resear...
- nvy 2y ago
  I doubt there are reports. Such is the nature of open secrets. Once they're reported in an official fashion they cease to be "secret" and regulators' hands are forced.
  - glenstein 2y ago
    So you have no personal connection and no knowledge of any particular reports. That doesn't make you wrong, but surely you can understand how reading this and not knowing what you know, this raises every possible red flag for unsubstantiated internet speculation.

parsimo2010 2y ago

I’ve seen a few people mentioning medical certifications, but nobody has mentioned that 8 years ago the FAA passed a system called BasicMed which allows pilots to continue flying without getting a medical examination as long as they meet certain conditions. The plane must not exceed 6,000 lbs and must carry less than six passengers. You also can’t have failed your last medical exam. The plane he crashed had a maximum takeoff weight of 5,500 lbs and only carried two people. As long as he flew below 18,000 ft and 250 knots, he was legal (I’m not saying anything about whether he was healthy enough to fly). In all likelihood he hadn’t had a physical in 8 years. He still would have had to have passed one in his eighties, but he probably hadn’t had an FAA exam in a while. Source: I’m a private pilot and my dad in his 60s is as well, he flies on BasicMed because he hates going to the doc. Edit: someone actually had mentioned BasicMed a few minutes before I started typing, but I’ll leave my comment up.

tjohns 2y ago
You still need to get a physical (and sign off) from your primary doc every few years under BasicMed. Just not a full FAA flight physical. If someone has not had a documented physical at all in 8 years, they're not legal to fly. This is also a matter of public record, you can look up exactly what medical class he's operating under and when his last physical exam was on the FAA website. There no need to speculate. Edit: I just looked it up. He had his last BasicMed physical from his primary doc last year, so he was current.
- ominous_prime 2y ago
  The FAA only knows when you last took the BasicMed quiz and attested that you will follow the rules. Getting a physical, storing the form signed by the doctor, and maintaining a valid drivers license are up to the individual.
  - tjohns 2y ago
    When you take the BasicMed class, you also have to report when your last physical was. Your physical date is public record is transmitted to the FAA and is part of your Airman Registry record. Yes, you could lie... but the documentation for the physical is part of your logbook and subject to audit. If I were a CFI, I would be checking that before signing off anyone's BFR. You can't really get away with this for long.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

leetcrew 2y ago

overall, the bar for skills and medical is significantly higher for flying vs driving. the other comments do a good job addressing the specifics. it's worth keeping in mind that the sky is a big place. so is the ground when you're not driving a car. it's not a great idea to keep flying in your 90s, but it's extremely unlikely that anyone gets hurt who didn't choose to be in the plane.

thfuran 2y ago
Though you still leave a big fucking mess for someone to deal with.