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Why is any targeted advertising unethical? I don’t like advertising, but I see no ethical problem whatsoever with it.

by sneak 2y ago

zinodaur 2y ago
It lets companies profit off of our secrets, often in ways that hurt us (e.g. this article) and doesn't provide any positive social value.
- sneak 2y ago
  I don’t think it’s secret if you give it to Facebook. Furthermore, something doesn’t need to provide social value to be ethical. I think that the vast majority of people don’t really care about privacy, and aren’t divulging anything remotely “secret” by providing all of their browsing history to ad companies. The tools for not doing so are a two second websearch away for everyone, and most people don’t bother.
  - jjj123 2y ago
    Is it a secret how long I subconsciously linger on a single post as I scroll through my Instagram feed? I’d argue that it’s even more private than a secret, it’s something I may not be aware of and have little control over.
BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
Because the purpose is to use knowledge about someone, along with a toolbox of weird psychological tricks, to manipulate them into spending their money (time) on things they don’t need. It’s as unethical as lying or scamming.
- sneak 2y ago
  All advertising is an attempt to manipulate someone into spending their money. Either all advertising is unethical (and it isn’t), or targeted advertising is not, methinks. Lying and scamming are fraudulent. Advertising (in the usual case) is absolutely not. There is a bright line difference and equating them is not a useful logical reasoning device.
  - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
    >all advertising is unethical No, advertising that aims to manipulate you into an unnecessary purchase is unethical. There’s some fuzzy line here where an advertisement like “bob’s hardware: come on down to bob’s for high quality pickaxes” is acceptable and a coca cola ad isn’t. Almost all modern advertising is the latter, and it’s most certainly unethical. I’d happily call it borderline fraudulent; these companies claim through subconscious implication things like “this car will make you happy and everyone will respect you more,” which is a bold faced lie. Basically all modern advertising is unethical; it wouldn’t be the first time something unethical was widespread because it was profitable.
- xvector 2y ago
  That's fine. I've discovered plenty of cool products through Insta that I wouldn't have found otherwise.
  - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
    Cool, I’m glad it worked for you. I do think those examples are the exceptions to the norm though, and represent a small portion of the ads shoved into our faces.
- chii 2y ago
  > spending their money (time) on things they don’t need. but it's not so clear that going to college is not benefitial. Saying it is a scam implies that these colleges are valueless to attend (which i assume is not true as education is usually pretty valuable).
__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
You're trying to get people to do something without their consent. It's fundamentally coercive. Different in degree, but not in kind, to closing a road and routing traffic through your restaurant's drive through lane. Additionally, we have institutions that (allegedly) function based on rational decision making by agents with access to accurate information (markets, democracy, etc). Investment in advertising beyond simply making information available to those who seek it erodes the efficacy of those institutions. It's like putting stickers on your windshield... Even if their content is not objectionable, you're going to end up less safe because you can't see past them. For a concrete example of the latter: education outcomes are trending poorly, many teachers blame phone addiction. But if you look at what those students are doing on their phones, it's engaging with some advertising platform or another. We've created an environment where good dopamine hygiene requires skillful evasion of one of our most well funded industries. We're surely shooting ourselves, and each other, in the foot here. If polluting the physical world with hazards waste is unethical, than surely there is something equivalently unethical regarding information.

Why is any targeted advertising unethical? I don’t like advertising, but I see no ethical problem whatsoever with it.

by sneak 2y ago

Why is any targeted advertising unethical? I don’t like advertising, but I see no ethical problem whatsoever with it.

It lets companies profit off of our secrets, often in ways that hurt us (e.g. this article) and doesn't provide any positive social value.

sneak 2y ago
I don’t think it’s secret if you give it to Facebook. Furthermore, something doesn’t need to provide social value to be ethical. I think that the vast majority of people don’t really care about privacy, and aren’t divulging anything remotely “secret” by providing all of their browsing history to ad companies. The tools for not doing so are a two second websearch away for everyone, and most people don’t bother.
- jjj123 2y ago
  Is it a secret how long I subconsciously linger on a single post as I scroll through my Instagram feed? I’d argue that it’s even more private than a secret, it’s something I may not be aware of and have little control over.

BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago

Because the purpose is to use knowledge about someone, along with a toolbox of weird psychological tricks, to manipulate them into spending their money (time) on things they don’t need. It’s as unethical as lying or scamming.

sneak 2y ago
All advertising is an attempt to manipulate someone into spending their money. Either all advertising is unethical (and it isn’t), or targeted advertising is not, methinks. Lying and scamming are fraudulent. Advertising (in the usual case) is absolutely not. There is a bright line difference and equating them is not a useful logical reasoning device.
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
  >all advertising is unethical No, advertising that aims to manipulate you into an unnecessary purchase is unethical. There’s some fuzzy line here where an advertisement like “bob’s hardware: come on down to bob’s for high quality pickaxes” is acceptable and a coca cola ad isn’t. Almost all modern advertising is the latter, and it’s most certainly unethical. I’d happily call it borderline fraudulent; these companies claim through subconscious implication things like “this car will make you happy and everyone will respect you more,” which is a bold faced lie. Basically all modern advertising is unethical; it wouldn’t be the first time something unethical was widespread because it was profitable.
xvector 2y ago
That's fine. I've discovered plenty of cool products through Insta that I wouldn't have found otherwise.
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
  Cool, I’m glad it worked for you. I do think those examples are the exceptions to the norm though, and represent a small portion of the ads shoved into our faces.
chii 2y ago
> spending their money (time) on things they don’t need. but it's not so clear that going to college is not benefitial. Saying it is a scam implies that these colleges are valueless to attend (which i assume is not true as education is usually pretty valuable).

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago

You're trying to get people to do something without their consent. It's fundamentally coercive. Different in degree, but not in kind, to closing a road and routing traffic through your restaurant's drive through lane. Additionally, we have institutions that (allegedly) function based on rational decision making by agents with access to accurate information (markets, democracy, etc). Investment in advertising beyond simply making information available to those who seek it erodes the efficacy of those institutions. It's like putting stickers on your windshield... Even if their content is not objectionable, you're going to end up less safe because you can't see past them. For a concrete example of the latter: education outcomes are trending poorly, many teachers blame phone addiction. But if you look at what those students are doing on their phones, it's engaging with some advertising platform or another. We've created an environment where good dopamine hygiene requires skillful evasion of one of our most well funded industries. We're surely shooting ourselves, and each other, in the foot here. If polluting the physical world with hazards waste is unethical, than surely there is something equivalently unethical regarding information.