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Meta's Ad Algorithm Directs Black Users to For-Profit Colleges

28 points by laurex 2y ago

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
I don't know if targeted advertising can ever be ethical, and even if it can, I doubt we'll see Meta doing it any time soon. But just to play devil's advocate... are we sure that for-profit colleges aren't disproportionally targeting black people? Meta may just be the messenger here.
- atlas_hugged 2y ago
  You mean dealer?
  - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
    Yes, that's a much better word.
- jimbob45 2y ago
  It would be trivial to check the proportion of for-profit HBCUs to nonprofit HBCUs but given the title of the website, I sense that they may not have checked on purpose.
  - jnordwick 2y ago
    They picked universities in Bronx NY, NJ (near Newark), and 30 miles from Chicago and paired them against universities in Colorado, Kanasas, and Arizona State.
- sneak 2y ago
  Why is any targeted advertising unethical? I don’t like advertising, but I see no ethical problem whatsoever with it.
  - zinodaur 2y ago
    It lets companies profit off of our secrets, often in ways that hurt us (e.g. this article) and doesn't provide any positive social value.
    - sneak 2y ago
      I don’t think it’s secret if you give it to Facebook. Furthermore, something doesn’t need to provide social value to be ethical. I think that the vast majority of people don’t really care about privacy, and aren’t divulging anything remotely “secret” by providing all of their browsing history to ad companies. The tools for not doing so are a two second websearch away for everyone, and most people don’t bother.
      - jjj123 2y ago
        Is it a secret how long I subconsciously linger on a single post as I scroll through my Instagram feed? I’d argue that it’s even more private than a secret, it’s something I may not be aware of and have little control over.
  - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
    Because the purpose is to use knowledge about someone, along with a toolbox of weird psychological tricks, to manipulate them into spending their money (time) on things they don’t need. It’s as unethical as lying or scamming.
    - sneak 2y ago
      All advertising is an attempt to manipulate someone into spending their money. Either all advertising is unethical (and it isn’t), or targeted advertising is not, methinks. Lying and scamming are fraudulent. Advertising (in the usual case) is absolutely not. There is a bright line difference and equating them is not a useful logical reasoning device.
      - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
firefoxd 2y ago
Would it be fair for these ads to target everyone equally? I think we are focusing on the wrong thing. Go to these colleges and see which demographic is most prevalent. Then teach that group that those colleges are... Wait, what's the problem with for profit colleges? Is it too expensive as opposed to the cheap not for profit colleges?
rustcleaner 2y ago
I've hated ads since I was just out of diapers. I have an anti-advertising sense at least as strong as your average politically active extended in-laws' sense of patriotism and duty. I do not understand how people go through their days with their memetic spaces constantly bombarded with unwanted messages about products, services, and parasitic ideas! If an ad were a penis getting shoved in your face and ear this would be an open and shut issue: keep it to the peni... err advertising directories!
- xvector 2y ago
  Capitalism has been the most successful economic system we've ever come up with. Contrary to popular opinion, it's accelerated technological development, poverty reduction, and QoL worldwide. However, it requires people buying things. People only buy things if they know about them. For this, you need ads. Ads are not evil.
jnordwick 2y ago
Are they serious? The research paper is terrible. They hand picked pairs of universities they thought to be equal in the their eyes and looked to see which one's were shown. Here are the pairings: Strayer University (NJ) vs Colorado State American Intercontinental University (30 miles from Chicago) vs Fort Hayes State University (Kansas) Monroe College (Bronx NY) vs Arizona State University Those are your pairings... this has to be a joke. They made ads for these schools and ran them (nothing like researchers - and I use that loosely - getting involved in their own research).
thegrim33 2y ago
The study's entire methodology was to look through enrollment data to find for-profit schools that had a higher proportion of black students, and then run ads for those schools. Because a higher percentage of black people already go to the school, and are connected on Meta, and because Meta bases ad delivery on subjects relevant to people similar to / connected to you, the ads for those colleges were delivered to black people more often, because black people already are highly represented at these schools. Ok? It's a completely generic algorithm. If the school had a uniquely high percentage of any "group" of people, whether based on race, region, hobbies, interests, literally anything, ads for that school would be more likely sent to people in those groups. The headline is pretty editorialized and presents a pretty misleading picture.
- verticalscaler 2y ago
  > The headline is pretty editorialized and presents a pretty misleading picture. Could never have predicted this given the domain name.
  - gettodachoppa 2y ago
    Least scammy racebait NGO.
- Booktrope 2y ago
  > It's a completely generic algorithm. If the school had a uniquely high percentage of any "group" of people, whether based on race, region, hobbies, interests, literally anything, ads for that school would be more likely sent to people in those groups. Um, oops. There are laws against discriminating on the basis of race, like, steering Black people to different schools on that basis. That's the difference. When you say, it's a neutral algorithm because it steers people on the basis of other factors as well, you miss the whole point of having anti-discrimination laws. There's no law prohibiting steering on the bases of "hobbies, interests, literally anything". So when you say the algorithm is okay for that reason, you're saying discrimination based on race is okay if you also discriminate on other, lawful grounds. That seems to me like saying, race discrimination ought not be unlawful. If that's your opinion so be it, but an algorithm that steers people based on race is racially discriminatory. For example, as Meta previously recognized, steering people seeking apartments based on their race was racially discriminatory, even though steering people seeking apartments based on hobbies or interests isn't that kind of discrimination. The argument you're making would apply equally to steering based on race in connection with jobs, housing, education, and all other areas of society, permitting racial steering because there's an algorithm involved that doesn't just include racial discrimination. Meta hopefully will recognize this was a mistake, and hopefully will do the right thing by adjusting their algorithm to refrain from steering people in this way based on race.
h2odragon 2y ago
Those who pursue outrage for profit are forced to seek further and further afield. All the low hanging fruit has been picked; you hafta work to find oppression that's acceptable to complain about now.

28 points by laurex 2y ago

I don't know if targeted advertising can ever be ethical, and even if it can, I doubt we'll see Meta doing it any time soon. But just to play devil's advocate... are we sure that for-profit colleges aren't disproportionally targeting black people? Meta may just be the messenger here.

atlas_hugged 2y ago
You mean dealer?
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  Yes, that's a much better word.
jimbob45 2y ago
It would be trivial to check the proportion of for-profit HBCUs to nonprofit HBCUs but given the title of the website, I sense that they may not have checked on purpose.
- jnordwick 2y ago
  They picked universities in Bronx NY, NJ (near Newark), and 30 miles from Chicago and paired them against universities in Colorado, Kanasas, and Arizona State.
sneak 2y ago
Why is any targeted advertising unethical? I don’t like advertising, but I see no ethical problem whatsoever with it.
- zinodaur 2y ago
  It lets companies profit off of our secrets, often in ways that hurt us (e.g. this article) and doesn't provide any positive social value.
  - sneak 2y ago
    I don’t think it’s secret if you give it to Facebook. Furthermore, something doesn’t need to provide social value to be ethical. I think that the vast majority of people don’t really care about privacy, and aren’t divulging anything remotely “secret” by providing all of their browsing history to ad companies. The tools for not doing so are a two second websearch away for everyone, and most people don’t bother.
    - jjj123 2y ago
      Is it a secret how long I subconsciously linger on a single post as I scroll through my Instagram feed? I’d argue that it’s even more private than a secret, it’s something I may not be aware of and have little control over.
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
  Because the purpose is to use knowledge about someone, along with a toolbox of weird psychological tricks, to manipulate them into spending their money (time) on things they don’t need. It’s as unethical as lying or scamming.
  - sneak 2y ago
    All advertising is an attempt to manipulate someone into spending their money. Either all advertising is unethical (and it isn’t), or targeted advertising is not, methinks. Lying and scamming are fraudulent. Advertising (in the usual case) is absolutely not. There is a bright line difference and equating them is not a useful logical reasoning device.
    - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago

firefoxd 2y ago

Would it be fair for these ads to target everyone equally? I think we are focusing on the wrong thing. Go to these colleges and see which demographic is most prevalent. Then teach that group that those colleges are... Wait, what's the problem with for profit colleges? Is it too expensive as opposed to the cheap not for profit colleges?

rustcleaner 2y ago

I've hated ads since I was just out of diapers. I have an anti-advertising sense at least as strong as your average politically active extended in-laws' sense of patriotism and duty. I do not understand how people go through their days with their memetic spaces constantly bombarded with unwanted messages about products, services, and parasitic ideas! If an ad were a penis getting shoved in your face and ear this would be an open and shut issue: keep it to the peni... err advertising directories!

xvector 2y ago
Capitalism has been the most successful economic system we've ever come up with. Contrary to popular opinion, it's accelerated technological development, poverty reduction, and QoL worldwide. However, it requires people buying things. People only buy things if they know about them. For this, you need ads. Ads are not evil.

jnordwick 2y ago

Are they serious? The research paper is terrible. They hand picked pairs of universities they thought to be equal in the their eyes and looked to see which one's were shown. Here are the pairings: Strayer University (NJ) vs Colorado State American Intercontinental University (30 miles from Chicago) vs Fort Hayes State University (Kansas) Monroe College (Bronx NY) vs Arizona State University Those are your pairings... this has to be a joke. They made ads for these schools and ran them (nothing like researchers - and I use that loosely - getting involved in their own research).

thegrim33 2y ago

The study's entire methodology was to look through enrollment data to find for-profit schools that had a higher proportion of black students, and then run ads for those schools. Because a higher percentage of black people already go to the school, and are connected on Meta, and because Meta bases ad delivery on subjects relevant to people similar to / connected to you, the ads for those colleges were delivered to black people more often, because black people already are highly represented at these schools. Ok? It's a completely generic algorithm. If the school had a uniquely high percentage of any "group" of people, whether based on race, region, hobbies, interests, literally anything, ads for that school would be more likely sent to people in those groups. The headline is pretty editorialized and presents a pretty misleading picture.

verticalscaler 2y ago
> The headline is pretty editorialized and presents a pretty misleading picture. Could never have predicted this given the domain name.
- gettodachoppa 2y ago
  Least scammy racebait NGO.
Booktrope 2y ago
> It's a completely generic algorithm. If the school had a uniquely high percentage of any "group" of people, whether based on race, region, hobbies, interests, literally anything, ads for that school would be more likely sent to people in those groups. Um, oops. There are laws against discriminating on the basis of race, like, steering Black people to different schools on that basis. That's the difference. When you say, it's a neutral algorithm because it steers people on the basis of other factors as well, you miss the whole point of having anti-discrimination laws. There's no law prohibiting steering on the bases of "hobbies, interests, literally anything". So when you say the algorithm is okay for that reason, you're saying discrimination based on race is okay if you also discriminate on other, lawful grounds. That seems to me like saying, race discrimination ought not be unlawful. If that's your opinion so be it, but an algorithm that steers people based on race is racially discriminatory. For example, as Meta previously recognized, steering people seeking apartments based on their race was racially discriminatory, even though steering people seeking apartments based on hobbies or interests isn't that kind of discrimination. The argument you're making would apply equally to steering based on race in connection with jobs, housing, education, and all other areas of society, permitting racial steering because there's an algorithm involved that doesn't just include racial discrimination. Meta hopefully will recognize this was a mistake, and hopefully will do the right thing by adjusting their algorithm to refrain from steering people in this way based on race.

h2odragon 2y ago

Those who pursue outrage for profit are forced to seek further and further afield. All the low hanging fruit has been picked; you hafta work to find oppression that's acceptable to complain about now.