8 ms·

Can robots debone a chicken?

31 points by diminish 14y ago

amalag 14y ago
So this will increase the slaughter and inhumane treatment towards other sentient creatures. Put another blind eye to slaughterhouses. Better people should get graphic reminders of where their meat comes from than put another layer on the plastic packaging through using a machine. Losing empathy towards living creatures means reducing empathy for humans as well. A controversial statement, but i am sure one can search that out within themselves.
- rdl 14y ago
  I really don't think having some poor people working in slaughterhouses, treated slightly better than the animals they butcher (but only slightly) really improves anyone's sense of empathy for animals (or humans). That ship sailed a long time ago, around when we got factory farming or really once any family didn't contain at least one farmer (1800s?)
  - gurkendoktor 14y ago
    To anecdotally confirm what you said: There was a "scandal" in Germany last year where a school slaughtered and barbecued a hare. (Students were around 10/11 years old) Parents were outraged, basically arguing 'it should be everyone's choice to either know or ignore where meat comes from'.
- tomp 14y ago
  Did you read the article? The robot just separates the meat from the bone of chicken that are already dead. Robots won't increase the number of kills - consumer demand will. Interestingly, robots might even reduce the inhumane treatment towards these animals, which is, if I understand correctly, most often the result of cost-saving.
  - corin_ 14y ago
    More meat from each chicken could lead to less chickens killed, on the other hand cheaper production could lead to cheaper prices which could lead to a rise in demand... But as a non-vegetarian I'm pretty indifferent to which animals we eat more of.
- nitrogen 14y ago
  So this will increase the slaughter and inhumane treatment towards other sentient creatures. When did chickens become sentient?
  - justsee 14y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      Sure, we know what it means. Does any of that apply to chickens? Chickens are stupid, really stupid.
      - justsee 14y ago
        Well yes, that's why I just posted the link to the article which explains why they are sentient. A more interesting, thoughtful piece on this is http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s/2004/08/consider_the_lobster http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s/2004/08/consider_the_l...
        jlgreco 14y ago
        You are going to have to help me out and at least try to make an argument instead of linking to others. That wikipedia page doesn't suggest anything in your supporting as far as I can tell besides 'when talking about animal rights, the ability to feel pain is a sufficient argument' and backs that statement up with 'higher functioning is not required because no matter how crippled, humans are still sentient'. This is an emotional argument and I am forced to say that ratiponallly no, humans that are sufficiently disabled are not sentient. The lobster article just starts with the premise that they are sentient, dismisses the complete absence of brain structures that, if we lacked, we would likely be considered braindead, and say 'but they don't like being boiled!' Terribly unconvincing.
        14y ago
- icebraining 14y ago
  My grandmother, who raises chicken, likes them as much as most people I know like their dogs, and yet she has no problem killing and eating them. Your view of reduced empathy is simplistic and wrong.
  - amalag 14y ago
    So you are saying your grandmother is very compassionate?
gurkendoktor 14y ago
The good news is that less chicken will have to die for the same amount of meat. But it's sad to see the amount of sophistication in deboning when the actual slaughtering still seems to be a "mostly works" thing. I wish they'd invest the time and money in lab meat instead.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  As far as I know, chickens are still slaughtered by cutting their necks. The failure rate of that is probably about as low as you could possibly get in the entire meat industry. Regardless, money being spent on deboning technology is not automatically money that lab meat research missed out on. Research is not quite that zero sum..
- reitzensteinm 14y ago
  I'd expect a paradox of thrift situation to apply here; if prices go down due to efficiency, consumption will increase, likely to a point where the number of slaughters would actually increase.
  - protomyth 14y ago
    Or at least restaurants / fast food will use it in more dishes. Look at how McDonald's brings back the McRib when poultry prices go down[1]. 1) http://www.theawl.com/2011/11/a-conspiracy-of-hogs-the-mcrib-as-arbitrage http://www.theawl.com/2011/11/a-conspiracy-of-hogs-the-mcrib...
- netcan 14y ago
  I'd expect lab meat is a different kind of beast altogether when it comes to who is funding the development of it. This robot has an obvious business/marketing plan: the moment its better & cheaper than humans, it'll start to replace them everywhere. Hit that point and it'll sell in more or less known quantities. Don't hit it, it's (at best) a technology looking for a problem. Lab grown meat is who-the-fuck-knows R&D. How cheap does it need to be to sell how much of it/ How do we know when it tastes good enough. Who will buy it when it just hits the shelves. Who will buy it ten years after. etc. etc. Two completely different and probably non-competing buckets of time & money.
swedenborg 14y ago
why debone . its tastier cocked with bones, and while eating you debone ...
- sp332 14y ago
  It's useful when you're using chicken as an ingredient in prepared foods.
ralfd 14y ago
I was about to comment, that I would love to see a video of the robot-machinery. But then I clicked back to the article, and alas, there is!
protomyth 14y ago
"We did not understand the science of cutting," says Mr. McMurray, rubbing his hands together. "This is when you appreciate what a human can do." The above is probably that hardest step engineers / programmers have to deal with when doing this type of thing. It comes sometime after the realization that some things human's do are pretty hard.
- tomp 14y ago
  I think that one of the main "techniques" that humans use is continuous feedback - we don't decide exactly what path to use before we even start cutting, we just start cutting and see what happens and adjust as we proceed.
  - protomyth 14y ago
    Probably, we are after all is said and done really high-end pattern matching machines and we keep thinking about things. I just wish more schools would teach what amazing pieces of work humanity is and save engineers a lot of startup time on new projects. It would be better if people started new projects with a respect for what humans can really do.

31 points by diminish 14y ago

So this will increase the slaughter and inhumane treatment towards other sentient creatures. Put another blind eye to slaughterhouses. Better people should get graphic reminders of where their meat comes from than put another layer on the plastic packaging through using a machine. Losing empathy towards living creatures means reducing empathy for humans as well. A controversial statement, but i am sure one can search that out within themselves.

rdl 14y ago
I really don't think having some poor people working in slaughterhouses, treated slightly better than the animals they butcher (but only slightly) really improves anyone's sense of empathy for animals (or humans). That ship sailed a long time ago, around when we got factory farming or really once any family didn't contain at least one farmer (1800s?)
- gurkendoktor 14y ago
  To anecdotally confirm what you said: There was a "scandal" in Germany last year where a school slaughtered and barbecued a hare. (Students were around 10/11 years old) Parents were outraged, basically arguing 'it should be everyone's choice to either know or ignore where meat comes from'.
tomp 14y ago
Did you read the article? The robot just separates the meat from the bone of chicken that are already dead. Robots won't increase the number of kills - consumer demand will. Interestingly, robots might even reduce the inhumane treatment towards these animals, which is, if I understand correctly, most often the result of cost-saving.
- corin_ 14y ago
  More meat from each chicken could lead to less chickens killed, on the other hand cheaper production could lead to cheaper prices which could lead to a rise in demand... But as a non-vegetarian I'm pretty indifferent to which animals we eat more of.
nitrogen 14y ago
So this will increase the slaughter and inhumane treatment towards other sentient creatures. When did chickens become sentient?
- justsee 14y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    Sure, we know what it means. Does any of that apply to chickens? Chickens are stupid, really stupid.
    - justsee 14y ago
      Well yes, that's why I just posted the link to the article which explains why they are sentient. A more interesting, thoughtful piece on this is http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s/2004/08/consider_the_lobster http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s/2004/08/consider_the_l...
      - jlgreco 14y ago
        You are going to have to help me out and at least try to make an argument instead of linking to others. That wikipedia page doesn't suggest anything in your supporting as far as I can tell besides 'when talking about animal rights, the ability to feel pain is a sufficient argument' and backs that statement up with 'higher functioning is not required because no matter how crippled, humans are still sentient'. This is an emotional argument and I am forced to say that ratiponallly no, humans that are sufficiently disabled are not sentient. The lobster article just starts with the premise that they are sentient, dismisses the complete absence of brain structures that, if we lacked, we would likely be considered braindead, and say 'but they don't like being boiled!' Terribly unconvincing.
        14y ago
icebraining 14y ago
My grandmother, who raises chicken, likes them as much as most people I know like their dogs, and yet she has no problem killing and eating them. Your view of reduced empathy is simplistic and wrong.
- amalag 14y ago
  So you are saying your grandmother is very compassionate?

gurkendoktor 14y ago

The good news is that less chicken will have to die for the same amount of meat. But it's sad to see the amount of sophistication in deboning when the actual slaughtering still seems to be a "mostly works" thing. I wish they'd invest the time and money in lab meat instead.

jlgreco 14y ago
As far as I know, chickens are still slaughtered by cutting their necks. The failure rate of that is probably about as low as you could possibly get in the entire meat industry. Regardless, money being spent on deboning technology is not automatically money that lab meat research missed out on. Research is not quite that zero sum..
reitzensteinm 14y ago
I'd expect a paradox of thrift situation to apply here; if prices go down due to efficiency, consumption will increase, likely to a point where the number of slaughters would actually increase.
- protomyth 14y ago
  Or at least restaurants / fast food will use it in more dishes. Look at how McDonald's brings back the McRib when poultry prices go down[1]. 1) http://www.theawl.com/2011/11/a-conspiracy-of-hogs-the-mcrib-as-arbitrage http://www.theawl.com/2011/11/a-conspiracy-of-hogs-the-mcrib...
netcan 14y ago
I'd expect lab meat is a different kind of beast altogether when it comes to who is funding the development of it. This robot has an obvious business/marketing plan: the moment its better & cheaper than humans, it'll start to replace them everywhere. Hit that point and it'll sell in more or less known quantities. Don't hit it, it's (at best) a technology looking for a problem. Lab grown meat is who-the-fuck-knows R&D. How cheap does it need to be to sell how much of it/ How do we know when it tastes good enough. Who will buy it when it just hits the shelves. Who will buy it ten years after. etc. etc. Two completely different and probably non-competing buckets of time & money.

swedenborg 14y ago

why debone . its tastier cocked with bones, and while eating you debone ...

sp332 14y ago
It's useful when you're using chicken as an ingredient in prepared foods.

ralfd 14y ago

I was about to comment, that I would love to see a video of the robot-machinery. But then I clicked back to the article, and alas, there is!

protomyth 14y ago

"We did not understand the science of cutting," says Mr. McMurray, rubbing his hands together. "This is when you appreciate what a human can do." The above is probably that hardest step engineers / programmers have to deal with when doing this type of thing. It comes sometime after the realization that some things human's do are pretty hard.

tomp 14y ago
I think that one of the main "techniques" that humans use is continuous feedback - we don't decide exactly what path to use before we even start cutting, we just start cutting and see what happens and adjust as we proceed.
- protomyth 14y ago
  Probably, we are after all is said and done really high-end pattern matching machines and we keep thinking about things. I just wish more schools would teach what amazing pieces of work humanity is and save engineers a lot of startup time on new projects. It would be better if people started new projects with a respect for what humans can really do.