4 ms·

In the Claudine Gay case, she didn't actually steal anyone's work in any of the publicized examples I saw. She clearly attributed the ideas and statements she w

In the Claudine Gay case, she didn't actually steal anyone's work in any of the publicized examples I saw. She clearly attributed the ideas and statements she was using, but then sometimes proceeded to paraphrase them too closely, without using quotation marks. You could argue that it's technically plagiarism, but morally, it isn't. The reason she got nailed was because billionaire donors were upset that she wasn't cracking down on pro-Palestinian student protesters. Ironically, the guy who led the charge against Gay, Bill Ackman, is married to a celebrity academic who committed real, bona fide plagiarism. Once that came out, Ackman suddenly had all sorts of excuses for his wife's actual misconduct, which makes it clear that he never actually cared about the issue of plagiarism. He just wants kids who protest against the war in Gaza to get expelled.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
I agree with everything you've said about Ackman's rationale and actions. I don't necessarily agree with your overall characterization of Gay's plagiarism. While some of it is clearly of the kind you site (e.g. she's clearly referencing other work in a lot of her analysis, so the fact that she doesn't just reword some phrases a little more seems like a very minor transgression to me), there are other cases that are more than just sloppiness and are outright weird, like the acknowledgements issue. This opinion article from Ruth Marcus (a generally left-leaning writer) of the Washington Post highlighted the issues very well IMO: https://archive.vn/h8lqM https://archive.vn/h8lqM
- DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
  I don't think anyone cares what is written in acknowledgment sections. That's where people thank their mom and dad. If they thank their mom and dad in exactly the same way as someone else, who cares? Ruth Marcus may be liberal, but she's also extremely pro-Israeli. The entire motivation for going after Claudine Gay was that she didn't stop students from protesting against Israel's war in Gaza, so Marcus' political stance on that issue likely colors her view on the plagiarism accusations.
  - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
    > If they thank their mom and dad in exactly the same way as someone else, who cares? Because it's pathetic? Again, this wasn't just one instance of sloppy plagiarism, this was a common thread throughout her extremely thin academic career. And Gay wasn't just some random undergrad, she was the president of what was supposed to be one of the most prestigious universities in the world! The plagiarism scandal was just more proof that Gay was woefully unqualified for her job.
    - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
      As I said at the top, the plagiarism accusations were extremely thin, and nobody cares about how you word your acknowledgment. The bottom line is that if Claudine Gay had cracked down hard on students for protesting against Israel's war in Gaza, she would never have faced these accusations, and she would still be president of the university. I don't particularly care if she was a great president or not. I find it extremely unsettling that a few billionaires were able to oust the president of Harvard, as a way of forcing their own politics on the institution. Since her ousting, Harvard has moved hard against student protesters. Harvard got the message loud and clear, and that message had nothing to do with plagiarism.
dekhn 2y ago
I disagree; I inspected Gay's writing closely and compared it to the original and from what I can tell, she had specific intent to spend the least amount of effort and skill to make something that barely passed the threshold for being publishable, or she lacked the skill entirely to write her own unique text. I expect somebody who reaches her level of achievement to adhere to the rules of academic plagiarism to the letter.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

I agree with everything you've said about Ackman's rationale and actions. I don't necessarily agree with your overall characterization of Gay's plagiarism. While some of it is clearly of the kind you site (e.g. she's clearly referencing other work in a lot of her analysis, so the fact that she doesn't just reword some phrases a little more seems like a very minor transgression to me), there are other cases that are more than just sloppiness and are outright weird, like the acknowledgements issue. This opinion article from Ruth Marcus (a generally left-leaning writer) of the Washington Post highlighted the issues very well IMO: https://archive.vn/h8lqM https://archive.vn/h8lqM

DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
I don't think anyone cares what is written in acknowledgment sections. That's where people thank their mom and dad. If they thank their mom and dad in exactly the same way as someone else, who cares? Ruth Marcus may be liberal, but she's also extremely pro-Israeli. The entire motivation for going after Claudine Gay was that she didn't stop students from protesting against Israel's war in Gaza, so Marcus' political stance on that issue likely colors her view on the plagiarism accusations.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  > If they thank their mom and dad in exactly the same way as someone else, who cares? Because it's pathetic? Again, this wasn't just one instance of sloppy plagiarism, this was a common thread throughout her extremely thin academic career. And Gay wasn't just some random undergrad, she was the president of what was supposed to be one of the most prestigious universities in the world! The plagiarism scandal was just more proof that Gay was woefully unqualified for her job.
  - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
    As I said at the top, the plagiarism accusations were extremely thin, and nobody cares about how you word your acknowledgment. The bottom line is that if Claudine Gay had cracked down hard on students for protesting against Israel's war in Gaza, she would never have faced these accusations, and she would still be president of the university. I don't particularly care if she was a great president or not. I find it extremely unsettling that a few billionaires were able to oust the president of Harvard, as a way of forcing their own politics on the institution. Since her ousting, Harvard has moved hard against student protesters. Harvard got the message loud and clear, and that message had nothing to do with plagiarism.

dekhn 2y ago

I disagree; I inspected Gay's writing closely and compared it to the original and from what I can tell, she had specific intent to spend the least amount of effort and skill to make something that barely passed the threshold for being publishable, or she lacked the skill entirely to write her own unique text. I expect somebody who reaches her level of achievement to adhere to the rules of academic plagiarism to the letter.