6 ms·

Why would anyone invest in development in a country with such laws?

zfxfr 2y ago
We more or less have the same laws in France (and that's probably the case in other countries in EU)
diggan 2y ago
Because we have doors and windows closed, so in reality this isn't a huge issue. But historically, we've had huge issues with low employment, poverty and empty houses being all around you, while you cannot afford rent. Lots of empty houses + no employment + no money for rent = lets take this house and live in since no one lives there and we don't have a house currently. Basically, if you buy property, make sure to close it and install a security system. If okupas appear, do the "legal fasttrack" and get them out within 48 hours and it won't be an issue.
- golergka 2y ago
  > Basically, if you buy property, make sure to close it and install a security system. If okupas appear, do the "legal fasttrack" and get them out within 48 hours and it won't be an issue. Doesn't that make you not want to buy property in the first place? I'd rather buy it someplace where it can't be stolen.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > Doesn't that make you not want to buy property in the first place? If it was a common problem, then yes. But it's relatively uncommon, and to be honest, I'd rather have the existing system in place where people can legally occupy unused buildings, because there is a lot of them around here. And lots of property owners just keep them empty for years until their "investment" gives them the returns they want, which to me is a bigger problem than okupas.
    - lelanthran 2y ago
      > But it's relatively uncommon, I think when an entire industry rises, and then continues to exist, for the sole purposes of defending against (or undoing) the problem, it can no longer be said to be uncommon.
      - diggan 2y ago
        > when an entire industry rises You mean that one legally gray company/organization that gets rid of squatters? Could hardly count as an "entire industry". And yes, it is still uncommon. Or what would you call it? "Common"? Most places are legally rented.
- codetrotter 2y ago
  > Basically, if you buy property, make sure to close it and install a security system. If okupas appear, do the "legal fasttrack" and get them out within 48 hours and it won't be an issue. And also, if you’re gonna buy property please do so to actually live there yourself or to house a business that you own and actually operate. Don’t buy houses to rent them out. Don’t buy houses because you think that letting it sit unused for a few years will let you sell it for more in the future. Don’t buy houses to “renovate” (read: do unnecessary “improvements” that make the value appear higher) just to turn around and sell it. In general I wish housing was not seen as an “investment”. There’s plenty of people still that cannot afford to buy a house. Because other people are using housing as a way to gain more money for themselves.
  - golergka 2y ago
    You've listed all the ways to make sure no new houses are built. Update: > And also, if you’re gonna buy property please do so to actually live there yourself or to house a business that you own and actually operate. This means that I can't rent. But as a person who lives somewhere, or a person who operates a business, I'd rather rent than own — I don't want to have all the headache of owning the property, and I don't want to be committed to one place so much, I want to be able to move easily when my circumstances change. Even if I had enough money to buy a house, I would put that money into a bank or investment fund that buys thousands of different homes and rents it out so I'm not that exposed to risks of owning any single piece of property.
    - ggpsv 2y ago
      This is not the only way. See Vienna's public housing system as an example of what else can be done.
    - codetrotter 2y ago
      > Even if I had enough money to buy a house, I would put that money into a bank or investment fund that buys thousands of different homes and rents it out so I'm not that exposed to risks of owning any single piece of property. Well, but imagine that houses cost a fraction of their current price. That’s the point. A home shouldn’t have to be this ginormous investment that you have to slave and save for many years to put down a small part of the total price for and be stuck paying back a mortgage to some bank for the rest of your working life. Everyone should have the opportunity to own some kind of home, from early age and without going into debt for it. And for the risk of the remaining low value of homes in that world, that can be covered with insurance. And then you are still able to save up money and invest those remaining money into actually productive businesses, to diversify risk and earn a bit from your money and so on.
- ssijak 2y ago
  what if you travelled out of country for 10 days for whatever normal reason? can you do the "fast track" online or in person only?
  - diggan 2y ago
    Yes, you'd have legal representation (that is located in Spain) that can initiate it and handle it for you.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
benterix 2y ago
Because houses there are very cheap, you can have one with an ocean/sea view without paying through the nose while still living in Europe.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  Very cheap by who's wages? US? Switzerland?
- golergka 2y ago
  Wouldn't it be better to buy one where a random thief can't take it away from you and just use the income to rent the cheap house with a sea view?
gdffgfff 2y ago
[flagged]
somedude895 2y ago
That's what happens when you turn criminals into victims. Wrong incentives and side effects make a bad situation worse.
crote 2y ago
Unless you plan on essentially abandoning your investment, it really isn't a big deal in practice. If you live in the home yourself, someone can't squat in it. If you rent it out, someone can't squat in it. If you install any kind of security system, you'll know someone is trying to squat in time to actually do something about it. Got a long-term investment you're planning to renovate? Rent it out as "anti-squat": way cheaper price, but you provide essentially zero services and can kick them out at any time, so essentially a live-in security guard.
nephanth 2y ago
Spain has a huge amount of unnocupied property. It doesn't need new development as much as for those to just get filled
peterfirefly 2y ago
Spain does in fact have a general problem with investments...

We more or less have the same laws in France (and that's probably the case in other countries in EU)

Because we have doors and windows closed, so in reality this isn't a huge issue. But historically, we've had huge issues with low employment, poverty and empty houses being all around you, while you cannot afford rent. Lots of empty houses + no employment + no money for rent = lets take this house and live in since no one lives there and we don't have a house currently. Basically, if you buy property, make sure to close it and install a security system. If okupas appear, do the "legal fasttrack" and get them out within 48 hours and it won't be an issue.

golergka 2y ago
> Basically, if you buy property, make sure to close it and install a security system. If okupas appear, do the "legal fasttrack" and get them out within 48 hours and it won't be an issue. Doesn't that make you not want to buy property in the first place? I'd rather buy it someplace where it can't be stolen.
- diggan 2y ago
  > Doesn't that make you not want to buy property in the first place? If it was a common problem, then yes. But it's relatively uncommon, and to be honest, I'd rather have the existing system in place where people can legally occupy unused buildings, because there is a lot of them around here. And lots of property owners just keep them empty for years until their "investment" gives them the returns they want, which to me is a bigger problem than okupas.
  - lelanthran 2y ago
    > But it's relatively uncommon, I think when an entire industry rises, and then continues to exist, for the sole purposes of defending against (or undoing) the problem, it can no longer be said to be uncommon.
    - diggan 2y ago
      > when an entire industry rises You mean that one legally gray company/organization that gets rid of squatters? Could hardly count as an "entire industry". And yes, it is still uncommon. Or what would you call it? "Common"? Most places are legally rented.
codetrotter 2y ago
> Basically, if you buy property, make sure to close it and install a security system. If okupas appear, do the "legal fasttrack" and get them out within 48 hours and it won't be an issue. And also, if you’re gonna buy property please do so to actually live there yourself or to house a business that you own and actually operate. Don’t buy houses to rent them out. Don’t buy houses because you think that letting it sit unused for a few years will let you sell it for more in the future. Don’t buy houses to “renovate” (read: do unnecessary “improvements” that make the value appear higher) just to turn around and sell it. In general I wish housing was not seen as an “investment”. There’s plenty of people still that cannot afford to buy a house. Because other people are using housing as a way to gain more money for themselves.
- golergka 2y ago
  You've listed all the ways to make sure no new houses are built. Update: > And also, if you’re gonna buy property please do so to actually live there yourself or to house a business that you own and actually operate. This means that I can't rent. But as a person who lives somewhere, or a person who operates a business, I'd rather rent than own — I don't want to have all the headache of owning the property, and I don't want to be committed to one place so much, I want to be able to move easily when my circumstances change. Even if I had enough money to buy a house, I would put that money into a bank or investment fund that buys thousands of different homes and rents it out so I'm not that exposed to risks of owning any single piece of property.
  - ggpsv 2y ago
    This is not the only way. See Vienna's public housing system as an example of what else can be done.
  - codetrotter 2y ago
    > Even if I had enough money to buy a house, I would put that money into a bank or investment fund that buys thousands of different homes and rents it out so I'm not that exposed to risks of owning any single piece of property. Well, but imagine that houses cost a fraction of their current price. That’s the point. A home shouldn’t have to be this ginormous investment that you have to slave and save for many years to put down a small part of the total price for and be stuck paying back a mortgage to some bank for the rest of your working life. Everyone should have the opportunity to own some kind of home, from early age and without going into debt for it. And for the risk of the remaining low value of homes in that world, that can be covered with insurance. And then you are still able to save up money and invest those remaining money into actually productive businesses, to diversify risk and earn a bit from your money and so on.
ssijak 2y ago
what if you travelled out of country for 10 days for whatever normal reason? can you do the "fast track" online or in person only?
- diggan 2y ago
  Yes, you'd have legal representation (that is located in Spain) that can initiate it and handle it for you.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

benterix 2y ago

Because houses there are very cheap, you can have one with an ocean/sea view without paying through the nose while still living in Europe.

Rinzler89 2y ago
Very cheap by who's wages? US? Switzerland?
golergka 2y ago
Wouldn't it be better to buy one where a random thief can't take it away from you and just use the income to rent the cheap house with a sea view?

gdffgfff 2y ago

[flagged]

somedude895 2y ago

That's what happens when you turn criminals into victims. Wrong incentives and side effects make a bad situation worse.

crote 2y ago

Unless you plan on essentially abandoning your investment, it really isn't a big deal in practice. If you live in the home yourself, someone can't squat in it. If you rent it out, someone can't squat in it. If you install any kind of security system, you'll know someone is trying to squat in time to actually do something about it. Got a long-term investment you're planning to renovate? Rent it out as "anti-squat": way cheaper price, but you provide essentially zero services and can kick them out at any time, so essentially a live-in security guard.

nephanth 2y ago

Spain has a huge amount of unnocupied property. It doesn't need new development as much as for those to just get filled

peterfirefly 2y ago

Spain does in fact have a general problem with investments...